1989-08-22 Planning Comm MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES, AUGUST 22 1989
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Planning
Commission was held on Tuesday, August 22, 1989, in the City
Hall Council Chambers, 1101 Victoria Curve. Chairman Morson
called the meeting to order at 7:34 P.M. The following
members were present: Morson, Koll, Dwyer, Anderson, Duggan
and Tilsen. Commissioner Krebsbach was excused. Also
present were Public Works Director James Danielson,
Administrative Assistant Kevin Batchelder and Planning
Consultant Howard Dahlgren.
APPROVAL OF
MINUTES
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
Commissioner Duggan moved approval of the
minutes of the July 25, 1989.
Commissioner Dwyer seconded the motion.
CASE NO. 89-32 Kenneth Schweiger, 683 Ocala Lane,
SCHWEIGER VARIANCE described the proposed addition to his
home and the variance he was requesting.
In response to a question from
Commissioner Tilsen, Public Works
Director James Danielson stated that
after a building permit is issued
inspections are required. He stated that
prior to the footings being poured, the
Building Inspectors verify property
lines.
Commissioner Anderson moved to recommend
that Council grant a one foot (1') rear
yard variance to construct an addition.
Commissioner Koll seconded the motion.
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
CASE NO. 89-33 Mr. Dennis Weiler, 1899 Walsh Lane,
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
CASE NO. 89-28
SIGN VARIANCE
Page 2
August 22, 1989
described his request for a variance to the
side yard setback. He stated that the survey
stakes overlapped when Rolling Green Addition
was platted. This caused a five foot
discrepancy along his south property line
where the Rolling Green Addition plat butted
against the Wagenknecht Addition. Mr. Weiler
stated that his neighbor to the south had
maintained the property up to an existing
fence which is actually five feet on his
property. He did not want to cut five feet
off his garage when his house was built. He
also stated that when a public walkway was
put through, he had to reduce his home to
achieve a ten foot setback along his south
property line. He wants to deed the disputed
five feet of land to his neighbor so he can
clear the problem in order to sell his home.
Mr. Weiler stated that he wants a variance to
his side yard setback.
Commissioner Dwyer moved to waive the public
hearing for a lot division and recommend that
Council approve a five foot (5') side yard
setback variance and that Council pass a
Resolution approving the requested lot
division. Commissioner Duggan moved to
second the motion.
There was no one present to represent Dakota
County State Bank's request for a sign
variance.
Commissioner Duggan inquired if the size of
the sign was a problem and exactly where was
the relocated sign to be placed.
Commissioner Duggan moved to recommend that
City Council grant a front yard setback
variance with two conditions:
1. That the sign be the same size or smaller and
that it be in accordance with the City's Sign
Ordinance.
2. That the exact placement of the sign be
determined by City Council in light of sight
distance lines and constraints.
Commissioner Koll seconded the motion.
Page 3
August 22, 1989
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
CASE NO. 88-27 Commission Chair Morson called the public
PATRICK SUBDIVISION hearing to order. Mr. Steve Patrick
presented his proposed subdivision, Mendota
Woods. Mr. Patrick discussed how his first
subdivision proposal last year had been
delayed. Mr. Patrick discussed how he had
been directed by the City to integrate his
subdivision with surrounding land owners and
how he had achieved this and is now
reapplying for a subdivision. Mr. Patrick
stated that he had purchased the Irving Clark
land and had a tentative agreement to swap
some land with Centex. Mr. Patrick stated
his subdivision proposal was eleven (11)
lots, with a public cul-de-sac. He stated
all lots were well above the City's minimum
lot size and that the use was in compliance
with the zoning.
Chairman Morson asked Mr. Patrick, who owned
the land to the west. Mr. Patrick stated
that this land was owned by Tandem all the
way to Dodd Road.
Commission Chair Morson inquired about Lot 7
and its access being so close to the pond.
Public Works Director Danielson responded
that a Wetlands permit would be needed.
Commissioner Koll inquired if there was
currently an existing driveway where Ryan
Road was proposed. She inquired about its
location to the pond and how wet it was. Mr.
Patrick responded that it is dry however, it
does get wet but is formed to drain to the
pond.
Commissioner Duggan stated that with the
airplane noise that Mr. Patrick might
encounter a reluctance to buy lots.
Commissioner Duggan expressed a concern about
the lack of driveways shown on the plat and
the difficulty of the terrain. Commissioner
Duggan also expressed a concern about tree
removal. He stated, that in this case we are
not talking about scrub trees but aged trees,
many of them oaks. Commissioner Duggan
stated that the ordinances had grading
requirements that he felt were not met in
this plat. He stated that a tree inventory
should be done.
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
page 4
August 22, 1989
Commissioner Duggan moved to close the public
hearing. Commissioner Anderson seconded the
motion.
Commissioner Duggan inquired if the cul-de-
sac had to be sixty feet (60') wide and was
it possible to be only forty feet (40') wide.
Public Works Director Danielson stated that
sixty feet (60') is the City's minimum right
of way. Chair Morson inquired if Ryan Road
was to be dedicated as a public road. Mr.
Patrick responded yes. Commissioner Duggan
stated that there was no indication of
driveways and drainage on the plat.
Commissioner Tilsen inquired about the
grading of the driveways and if other
alternatives to accessing the lots were
considered. Mr. Patrick replied that some
leveling was needed to put in the public road
and that this would also require the removal
of some trees. He stated it would be a small
percentage of the trees on the parcel.
Commissioner Tilsen expressed his concerns
about the access to lot 7 and its proximity
to the Wetlands. Chair Morson inquired if
Lot 7, because of its difficulty could have
a common drive with Lot 6. Planner Dahlgren
responded that a private easement could be
granted through another lot. Chair Morson
stated that we could recommend a Wetlands
Permit be granted now. Planner Dahlgren
responded that the actual location of the
drive should await for the developer to
determine.
Commissioner Koll inquired if the drainage
was into the cul-de-sac area with a storm
sewer link to the pond area and into the
storm sewer already constructed on the Centex
site. Public Works Director Danielson
replied that this was correct.
Commissioner Koll inquired if the houses on
the plan are arbitrary. Mr. Patrick
responded that yes, they are shown on the
plan only to give an idea of possible layouts
for footprints. Mr. Patrick stated he
intends to leave the lots in their present
state and let the individual buyers do as
Page 5
August 22, 1989
they see fit.
Commissioner Dwyer asked if Outlot A would be
added to Centex' PUD as Manor Homes and if so
how many additional Manor Homes would this
amount to. Mr. Kevin Clark, of Centex Homes,
replied that on the final plat for Centex
there would be 20 buildings and that Outlot A
would contain 28 units. Commissioner Dwyer
stated this would be a concern that Council
should be aware of. Public Works Director
Danielson stated that this area was
designated as high density residential.
Danielson stated that when Mr. Patrick
originally applied for a subdivision it was
unknown what would happen with the
surrounding properties and how they would be
developed, especially the Irving Clark
property which would have been landlocked
with the earlier subdivision. Danielson
stated that now Mr. Patrick has acquired the
Irving Clark land and has included it in his
subdivision request. He stated this creates
a buffer to the west with the trees and the
ridge.
Commissioner Anderson stated that last year
the proposal was too little of a parcel for
single family development. Commissioner
Anderson stated that keeping the Wetland area
and the terrain in mind that there is really
no other rational approach to developing this
area. Commissioner Anderson stated that
keeping this area in a low density use makes
sense to him. Commissioner Dwyer asked if
combining Lots 6 and 7 would be a good
approach to not encroaching on the Wetlands
area. Commissioner Anderson agreed.
Commissioner Duggan stated that this is the
high point in the Southeast area and that the
airplane noise might cause a reluctance to
buy in the area.
Commissioner Duggan stated that he would like
to see the trees on the west side of Ryan
Road protected when grading is done for the
public road and when individual drives are
put in. Chair Morson stated that he
appreciated the concerns over removal of the
trees and the protection of the Wetlands,
however each owner will have his/her lot
development to consider and that this is
something there is no control over.
Commissioner Duggan stated that we could have
Page 6
August 22, 1989
the developer come back with the driveways
shown and the potential number of trees that
would be removed. Commissioner Anderson
stated that Mr. Patrick should be commended
for not stripping his land before even
approaching the City, that other developers
would have done this. Anderson stated that
Mr. Patrick recognized the saving of trees
and the value they will have to the
individual lots. Commissioner Duggan replied
that many of the trees were aged and
substantial oaks.
Commissioner Tilsen stated that Lot 2
appeared to be 20 to 25 feet higher than the
road and that this created an enormous slope
for a driveway. He was concerned that the
lot would have very few trees left after the
grading was completed. He inquired if there
were perhaps any different ideas about
accessing the individual lots. Chair Morson
stated that Wachtler/Evergreen Knolls was
also a challenging site, but not impossible.
Commissioner Anderson stated that it was not
the Planning Commission's task to devise a
scheme that would work, that it is the
developer's challenge to place the houses and
drives. Commissioner Anderson stated that
economics and viability would determine the
outcome and that these designs should be left
up to the developer.
Commissioner Anderson moved to recommend that
City Council grant preliminary plat approval
as presented with one condition, the
condition being that Lot 6 and Lot 7 be
combined to avoid Wetlands issues.
Commissioner Dwyer seconded the motion.
Commissioner Tilsen suggested a friendly
amendment to be included in the motion.
Tilsen stated that Mike Scharrer, the City's
Oak Wilt Specialist, consult with the City
and that prior to final plat approval he
would make recommendations on how to minimize
the impact to trees in the subdivision. Oak
Wilt disease was discussed. Commissioner
Anderson accepted the friendly amendment to
his motion.
AYES: 4
NAYS: 2 Duggan and Koll. Duggan opposed because of
his feeling that the plat was inadequate
because it failed to show driveways, grading
Page 7
August 22, 1989
and tree removal. Koll was opposed to the
combining of Lot 6 and 7.
CASE NO. 89-30 Mr. Steve Karel, of 1562 Park Circle,
KAREL CUP FOR FENCE presented his request for a CUP to build a
fence, six feet (6') high on his property
line on a through lot. Mr. Karel stated he
was concerned for his family because the
property was along Wachtler and its level of
traffic caused him concern about his
children's safety.
Commission Chair Morson asked Mr. Karel if he
had considered any other type of fence, such
as a woven fence. Mr. Karel responded he was
not opposed to changing the style of the
fence. Commissioner Duggan asked if the
trees along the property line would remain.
Mr. Karel responded that yes the fence would
be inside the trees.
Chair Morson stated that he was concerned
about a six foot high board fence. Morson
stated that when Mr. Mastel had put up his
fence that the noise level had increased
along Wachtler. These types of fences
reflect the noise to other neighbors, he
stated. Mr. Karel stated that the other
fence is closer to the street. Chair Morson
replied that he had spoken to an engineer
that was involved in noise issues and that
reflected noise from board fences was a
significant factor. Morson stated that he
would like to continue the public hearing to
allow staff time to contract with a noise
engineer to study reflected noise in the
community and suggest ordinance changes to
handle this problem. Mr. Karel stated that
he understood that berms help reduce noise
and that his fence would be on higher ground.
Commissioner Dwyer stated that screening with
trees might help. Commissioner Anderson
stated that aesthetically speaking he would
like to see no fences along Wachtler.
Anderson stated that this fence would set a
bad precedent along the street and that child
safety was a parental issue. Anderson stated
that aesthetically the fence would not be a
good neighbor. Commissioner Duggan asked
when the studies would end, once they were
started. Commissioner Anderson replied that
the Ordinances are already in place and, that
is, for a through lot, the rear yard is
Page 8
August 22, 1989
treated similar to a front yard. He stated
that front yards are allowed a fence two and
one half feet (2 1/2') high that are set back
thirty (30') from the property line.
Anderson stated that a 2 1/2' fence would
protect the children and preserve the rural
character of the community. Anderson stated
that a six foot (6') fence is inappropriate
and a poor precedent. Commissioner Duggan
stated that if staff had to commission
research studies for every variance we might
have a problem.
Mr. Karel responded that he understands the
Commission's concern about a wide corridor
along Wachtler, but they should note the size
of his back yard. Mr. Karel stated that it
was not a corner lot but a center lot that
only affected one neighbor and that he
doubted it would create an unfriendly
situation with the neighbors. He stated that
they had received public notices and were not
present. Mr. Karel stated his back yard
faced Wachtler.
Commissioner Duggan also stated that the
neighbors would be present if they cared.
Commissioner Dwyer stated these fences should
be considered on a case by case basis. Dwyer
stated that people will see the spruce trees
and not the fence. Commissioner Koll
inquired about the visibility with the board
fence. Koll stated she was concerned with
aesthetics, and about who would maintain the
fence and the land between the fence and
street. Mr. Karel replied he would.
Commissioner Koll stated her main objection
was the solid wood fence and that visibility
and open space were more aesthetic.
Commissioner Tilsen stated he was concerned
with the height of the fence. Tilsen stated
he would like to see the fences along
Wachtler kept to minimum heights. Tilsen
asked Mr. Karel if five feet (5') or lower
would work. Mr. Karel responded that five
feet (5') would work but he had problems with
four feet (4').
Commission Chair Morson stated that once this
was approved then all the other lots could
come in requesting the same thing. Morson
stated this was why he felt it was important
to have the City study the noise problem and
Page 9
August 22, 1989
come up with some answers. Commissioner
Tilsen stated that this case was more of a
hardship because it was an older home. Mr.
Karel stated that he could legally build a
six foot high fence that was thirty feet back
from the property line but that this is not
possible because his house sits there.
Commission Chair Morson stated he had talked
to Twin Cities Testing and that they felt
board fences were a significant noise
problem. Morson stated that he believed the
City had made a mistake with the approval of
the Mastel fence and that it should not be
allowed to happen again.
City Planner Dahlgren stated that fences
don't do much to restrict noise from coming
into the yard, and that a board on board
fence will not reflect noise. Dahlgren asked
why a six foot fence was necessary to keep
the children in. Dahlgren stated a chain
link fence would not reflect noise and that
four feet (4') would be plenty high to keep
children in. Commissioner Tilsen agreed with
Planner Dahlgren's points and stated that lat
boards on an angle would reflect less noise.
Chair Morson stated he wanted to continue the
hearing and commission a study.
Commissioner Duggan moved to close the public
hearing. Commissioner Koll seconded the
motion.
AYES: 4
NAYS: 2 Morson, Tilsen.
Commissioner Koll moved to recommend that
City Council approve the CUP for a four foot
(4') fence and that the fence be a picket
fence instead of a solid board fence.
Commissioner Duggan seconded.
AYES: 3
NAYS: 3 Morson, Anderson, Tilsen.
Motion fails.
Commissioner Duggan moved to recommend that
the City Council approve a CUP for the fence
if the fence is a maximum of five feet (5')
high and is aesthetically pleasing to the
neighbors and neighborhood. Commissioner
Dwyer seconded the motion.
Page 10
August 22, 1989
AYES: 3
NAYS: 3 Morson, Anderson, Tilsen.
Motion fails.
Mr. Karel asked the nays to explain their
votes. Commissioner Anderson explained that
he feels the ordinance should be adhered to
and that this meant a two and one half foot
(2 1/2') fence set back in conformity with
the ordinance. Chair Morson stated that he
was concerned with noise and setting a bad
precedent. Commissioner Tilsen stated he
shared the concerns with noise and
aesthetics.
Chair Morson stated it seemed to be at an
impasse and asked Planner Dahlgren what the
options were. Planner Dahlgren stated that a
new motion could be made and passed with a
majority or that the Planning Commission
could pass it along to City Council without a
recommendation. Planner Dahlgren stated that
perhaps the motion should use the language of
the Ordinance that refers to minimum and
maximum opaqueness of fences.
Commissioner Duggan made a motion to
recommend that City Council approve a CUP for
the fence with the following conditions:
1. that the fence have a maximum opaqueness of
fifty percent (50%).
2. that the fence have a maximum height of four
and one half feet (4 1/2').
Commissioner Dwyer seconded the motion.
AYES: 5
NAYS: 1 Anderson. Commissioner Anderson stated he
doesn't believe there should be a fence along
a property line without the proper setback
and maximum height of two and one half feet
(2 1/2'). He stated it was at odds with the
broad expanse, rustic atmosphere and
attractiveness of Mendota Heights.
CASE NO. 89-31 Dave Bjorklund, of Bjorklund Construction,
CUP for Cabana introduced Al Steffes, of 1149 Orchard
Circle. Commissioner Koll clarified where
the holding pond was in conjunction to the
house. Commissioner Duggan asked if the
1
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
VERBAL REVIEW
Page 11
August 22, 1989
neighbors had been contacted. Mr. Steffes
said the immediate neighbors had been, and
the others had received their public notices.
Staff apologized for not having the signed
letters of consent in the packets and showed
the Commission the letters and the abstract.
Commissioner Dwyer moved the close the public
hearing. Commissioner Koll seconded the
motion.
Commissioner Dwyer made a motion to recommend
that City Council approve the requested CUP
as presented. Commissioner Koll seconded the
motion.
Public Works Director outlined the actions
Council had taken on last months planning
cases.
ADJOURN There being no further business the meeting
was adjourned at 9:35 o'clock P.M.
Respectfully submitted
Kevin Batchelder
Administrative Assistant