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1990-02-28 Planning Comm MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA "R--bn-16)(1.1 CUD The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Planning Commission was held on Wednesday, February 28, 1990, in the City Hall Council Chambers, 1101 Victoria Curve. Vice Chair Person Dwyer called the meeting to order at 7:39 o'clock P.M. The following members were present: Dwyer, Koll, Dreelan, Krebsbach, Duggan and Tilsen. Chairperson Morson was excused. Also present were Public Works Director Jim Danielson, Planning Consultant Howard Dahlgren and Administrative Assistant Kevin Batchelder. APPROVAL OF Commissioner Duggan moved approval of MINUTES the January 23, 1990 minutes. Commissioner Dreelan seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 CASE NO. 89-04 BJORKLUND, VARIANCE AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 Mr. Richard Bjorklund, Sr., representing his son David Bjorklund, was present to discuss his son's request for a rear yard setback variance. Be stated that the lot is a corner lot where the homeowner desires to front the house on the long side of the property. Commissioner Tilsen noted that the plot plan indicated was labeled preliminary. He suggested that if, after completing final plans, there is any reduction in floor plan along the north/south axis, the variance granted should be smaller on the north lot line. Commissioner Krebsbach questioned why signatures of consent were not obtained from the surrounding neighbors. Mr. Bjorklund replied that his son left on vacation just after his meeting with Planner Dahlgren and that he was unable to obtain the signatures. Vice Chair Dwyer stated that he had talked to the owners at 562 Stone Road and that they commented that they are anxious to see the construction start and that they have no objections with Mr. Bjorklund's request. Commissioner Krebsbach moved to recommend that City Council approve a twenty foot (20') rear yard setback variance conditioned upon Mr. David Bjorklund providing affirmative signatures of adjacent neighbors for City Council review. Commissioner Koll seconded the motion. CASE NO. 89 -40 FRYE - CAO VARIANCE HEARING AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 CASE NO. 89 -34 MIST AMEND. TO ZONING ORDINANCE & CUP HEARING ebruary 28 , ?. 2990 Page 2 Commissioner Duggan moved to continue the public, hearing to March27, 1990 at 7:45 o'clock P.M. ' ' • Commissioner Koll seconded the motion. Vice Chair Dwyer opened the meeting at 8 :00 o'clock P.M. for the purpose of a public hearing to discuss a request from Mr. Jerry Haarman of the Minnesota's Indoor Soccer Arena Training Complex for an amendment to the zoning ordinance and CUP. Mr. Haarman, President of the Minnesota Indoor Soccer, stated that they have a lot of confidence in this project. He stated that they would be a good corporate citizen in Mendota Heights. He commented that they have conservatively estimated that there are 32,000 soccer players in the Twin Cities area. He stated that their hours of service will be from 6 :00 P.M. to Midnight. Mr. Haarman further stated that at this point in time there are seven investors. He stated that they have been studying this project for over twenty -four months and during that time they have toured many markets in the United States. He stated that they do have a secondary use for the building but that it is only a fallback. Mr. Haarman then introduced Mr. Kirk Hagman of Hagman Construction and Joseph Boslovich, Architect. Commissioner Krebsbach stated that there have been other indoor soccer sites that for one reason or another have been moved or closed. She expressed her concern as to why other indoor arenas have failed. Mr. Haarman stated that they have all closed mainly due to losing their leases. He stated that none of them have failed due to financial reasons. In response to a question from a question from Commissioner Krebsbach, Mr. Hagman stated that in both the Bloomington and Highway 55 soccer facilities, both of these facilities ran inside existing gymnasiums. He stated that that is not an ideal condition for indoor soccer. Mr. Hagman stated that they looked at both the western and southern suburbs. He stated that part of the problem in the western suburbs is that the land costs are so prohibitive that it does not make economic sense. He stated that one of the things they are trying to do here is to make some economic sense. In response to a question February 28, 1990 Page 3 from Commissioner Krebsbach, Mr. Hagman stated that they definitely anticipate players from the western suburbs to commute to Mendota Heights. Mr. Haarman stated that this site is located almost 20 minutes •from almost all of the large soccer populations. Mr. Hagman explained that they wanted some place where there was less than a half hour drive time. He stated that is part of the reason why they located the site in Mendota Heights. Vice Chair Dwyer then asked Mr. Haarman to give a presentation on the construction aspects of the property and building. Mr. Hagman explained that they basically had to put two hockey rinks inside the building. He stated that a hockey rink is eighty-five feet wide (85') and two hundred feet long (200'). He stated that they have two wings of •the building that are approximately two hundred twenty feet long (220') and one hundred ten feet wide (110'). He further explained the size of the construction. He stated that they are using two different types of decorative concrete block. He explained that they are using a rock faced block and a scored block which are two different types of texture. He explained the different textures. He stated that the texture and color "plays on you" to help bring the size of the building down. He stated that they also have the building accented with pre-finished metal which will bring some horizontal and vertical lines to break the space down. He stated that the center area (referring to a map) is the support area and that they are proposing to have a standing seam roof in forest green. He stated that they have gray, white and green proposed which are classic colors that go together. Mr. Hagman showed the layout of the soccer facility to the Commission. He pointed out the entrance and exit passages into the parking lot. He explained that they provided in excess of 130 spaces for the cars. He explained that they do not anticipate a lot of bus traffic mainly because the teams consist of less than 15 players per team. He commented that if the team would come all at once it would probably be in a van. He stated that if they do have bus traffic there is an entrance (referring to a map) and that there is some parking stalls for the buses. He stated that they do have some flexibility to handle the bus traffic. He explained that the plan calls for the traffic to come off of Northland Drive so they don't have any February 28, 1990 Page 4 entrances onto Mendota Heights Road. He commented that they felt there is less traffic on Northland Drive than on Mendota Heights Road and that Northland Drive would be a better place to handle the inflow onto the site. Mr. Hagman explained that they are lining the boulevard with trees along Northland Drive and along Mendota Heights Road. He stated that they are attempting to leave the existing. trees. He showed the MnDOT holding pond on the map. He stated that they would leave the trees in with vegetation and that they would leave as many trees as they can back along the lot line. Mr. Hagman stated that they did a preliminary layout plan. He stated that they do not expect this to be a big spectator sport. He stated that there is enough seating for the normal crowd, i.e., parents and small crowds expected for a tournament. He showed the two fields and the main entry way., the snack bar and a pro shop, washing rooms in the back and offices on the map. He stated that this layout would change some more once the plan is refined. Mr. Joseph Boslovich expressed his personal concerns to the Commission regarding a long driving distance. He stated that he likes Mendota Heights accommodations for travel time. He further commented that soccer is a fast growing sport. Commissioner Tilsen asked how many people operate the facility and asked about the supervision of the facility. Mr. Haarman responded that there will be seven full time employees and that if you take into consideration the referees and score keepers the number will go up to 14. He stated that there will be either an assistant manager or himself present there at all times to make sure that it is properly supervised at all times. He stated that they are concerned with supervision as they are dealing with a lot of youth. Commissioner Duggan stated that he had walked the site previously today and he asked about the drawing concerning the trees. He asked if MIST is working on an option to purchase MnDOT's property. Mr. Haarman answered no. He commented that the MnDOT holding pond will stay there. Commissioner Duggan stated staff's concerns with the grading. He stated that he has some concern that the building would be a tight squeeze. Mr. Hagman stated that February 28, 1990 Page 5 they had met today with Mr. Danielson and that they had talked about the possibility of raising the building. He stated that the reason why they put the building at the elevation at that level is because they do have a situation where they are putting the building down below the street some because they are playing off between what happens at this curb elevation and the back lot line (referring to a map). He stated that this could be handled with retaining walls. He stated that under the soccer scenario the problem is not very bad at all. He stated that under the second use scenario they did a lot of studies to find out what kind of flexibility they have. He stated that they could put a road in (referring to a map) if they build a retaining wall in. He stated that in Planner Dahlgren's notes he suggested that they talk to MnDOT in thinking that maybe they could do something in terracing an weaving the wall. He stated that they are willing to work with Mr. Danielson and that they want to make sure that he is satisfied. Commissioner Duggan commented that a lot of the soccer population is children and that they will generally be playing from August to May, which are more winter months than summer months, he stated that lighting was not indicated on any plans. Mr. Hagman stated that they have not created a luminar plan. He stated that they will have to address and that he understands Commissioner Duggan's concerns. Commissioner Duggan stated that he was pleased to see that the colors of the building are more muted. Commissioner Duggan stated that he is concerned in with the amount of traffic. He offered a suggestion of spreading the entrance and exit another twenty feet further apart to offset the possibility of accidents. Mr. Hagman stated that they would be willing to work that over Mr. Danielson. In response to a question from Commissioner Duggan, Mr. Hagman stated that there are public bathrooms which are separated from the locker rooms. Mr. Haarman stated that the people who use these type of facilities seldom use shower facilities and a locker room facility. Mr. Boslovich explained the restrooms and noted that the restrooms will equipped for the handicapped. Mr. Boslovich also explained that there will be restroom facilities in the locker rooms. Commissioner Duggan questioned the type of seating arrangement available to the spectators. Mr. Hagman stated that the February 28, 1990 Page 6 seating arrangement would only be on one side. Mr. Haarman stated in touring the Kansas City facility they noticed that most of the people preferred to stand. He stated that the amount of seating shown on the plans is ninety and that appears to be excessive. He commented that they will probably propose to install one half of that amount. He stated that there will be room to install more seating if need be. Mr. Hagman stated that the seating would probably be collapsible type bleachers. Commissioner Duggan commented that the building would not be used much for soccer during the summertime. Mr. Haarman agreed and said that they are looking at alternative sports to lease out during that time, i.e., karate, driving range for golf. Commissioner Duggan asked how the building would be cooled. Mr. Hagman stated that air exchangers is one way to cool the building down and that they are also looking into roof top units. In response to a question from Commissioner Duggan, Mr. Haarman stated that they could sustain the facility financially strictly on using the facility for soccer during the winter months. There was a brief discussion between Commissioner Krebsbach and Public Works Director Danielson regarding the connection of roads with respect to Highway 55 and Highway 110 and the frontage road in front of the City Hall. Planner Dahlgren explained the conditional use procedure to the Commission. Commissioner Krebsbach questioned if they could preclude activities in anticipation of secondary uses that may not be appropriate. Planner Dahlgren explained that the courts have allowed communities to add reasonable conditions to any conditional use. In response to a question from Commissioner Krebsbach, Mr. Haarman responded that there will be a food service area. He stated that they have not gotten very far in their restaurant planning. In response to a question from Commissioner Duggan, Planner Dahlgren stated that to his knowledge the City has had no proposals for development of the site across from MIST's site. He stated that it is true that restaurants could be built on one or more of those sites and that the land is properly zoned for such use. Vice Chair Dwyer stated that what the Commission is considering tonight is a February 28, 1990 Page 7 request to recommend an amendment to the zoning ordinance. He stated that this is presently zoned as an Industrial District and that the proposal is that we add participatory athletics to the industrial zones. He asked staff that if the Commission recommends approval will that open a "pandora's box" to some other industrial zone in the City. Planner Dahlgren responded that it probably would not. Vice Chair Dwyer noted the concerns stated in the staff memos about indoor/outdoor dumpsters. Mr. Haarman stated that they have not specifically discussed this matter with Mr. Danielson. He stated that they have the same concerns as does the City staff. He stated that they would like the dumpsters to be inside. He referred to a map as to where the dumpsters could be placed indoors. Vice Chair Dwyer asked about the construction time table. Mr. Hagman answered that they would like to be open this fall. He stated that they would like to get started on construction as soon as possible. Mr. Haarman stated that the pressure on them to gain approval tonight conditioned upon items needed to be done with staff, is that it helps in putting their mortgage in place. Commissioner Dreelan asked about the roof top heating and ventilating. Mr. Hagman stated that they will probably have gas fired units and that they will probably not have roof top units. He stated that in the event they go with a roof top unit that has air conditioning they can set them on the back side of the building. He stated that they will be working with Mr. Danielson regarding this issue. In response to a question from Commissioner Duggan, Mr. Hagman stated that the whole support area would be air conditioned. Commissioner Koll her concern with the driveway access. She stated that there are sharp turns off of Highway 55 and Northland Drive. She stated that the entrance is too close to the corner of the turn. Commissioner Duggan concurred with Commissioner Koll. Commissioner Duggan asked if there is large piles of dirt and if they would be willing to seed or cover the piles to minimize the dust. Mr. Hagman answered that they would use the best method possible to minimize the dust flow. February 28, 1990 Page 8 Commissioner Koll asked Mr. Danielson about the grade off of Northland Drive. Mr. Danielson responded that he has talked to them before and that he would like to see them raise the building. He stated that they have it too low on the site. The Engineer for the project stated that the reason why the building is at the elevation it is at is because they were trying to optimize the location of Northland Drive and the existing MnDOT right-of-way on the back of the site. He stated that it was done this way because if the building were to ever go to an office/warehouse scenario it would minimize the height of potential retaining walls in the back. He stated that the building could certainly be raised but that potentially the retaining wall would have to be higher. He further stated the difficult slope ratios they have had to deal with. He stated that they discussed with Mr. Danielson if there is a need for retaining walls on some of these slopes they are not opposed to them. Commissioner Koll stated her concerns with the concrete facing. She stated that in that particular area everything else is the dark brick. She stated that has been a standard in the industrial development. She expressed to Mr. Haarman and Mr. Hagman that she encourages them and that the City is fortunate to have this proposal. Commissioner Koll stated that a concrete building would probably stick out like a knife. Mr. Haarman stated that the concrete would be painted gray and white. Mr. Hagman stated that the nearest building next to them is the Unysis building. He stated that they would have to go across Highway 55 to run into a brick building. Mr. Haarman stated that this project has to make economic sense. He stated that there is no way economically that they could build this structure and use brick. He stated that they looked at that originally and that they just cannot do it. Mr. Boslovich stated that, in his opinion, there is nothing inherently wrong with using concrete as the material. He stated that using the materials described earlier that the building promises to be very handsome. He sited an example of a building that was built using concrete block. Planner Dahlgren stated that staff does not have problem with the use as such. He stated that the Commission should consider making a positive action if they see no problems. He stated that they do see some problems with the site plan as presented. February 28, 1990 Page 9 The first being that the building developed this low is a mistake. A building that you have to drive down to is always a marketing problem. He stated that it is much better if the building is above the street slightly or at near the same grade. He stated that an ideal solution is if they could get an agreement from MnDOT to raise that portion of the long spiked piece of land that MnDOT owns. He stated that the secret here is to get a site that has greater depth. He stated that they are very concerned about the elevation and the steepness of those driveways. He stated that some kid is going to get killed because those driveways are very steep and they do not have any space at the top that is flat so you can stop before you hit the road. He stated that this is a very severe safety problem that Mr. Danielson has spoken to them about. Planner Dahlgren further stated that another concern is the painted concrete block. He stated that the City of Mendota Heights has always pursued quality in all of its development. He stated that most of the industry that is being developed today is being done with brick and is being done very well. He stated that he is very concerned about the ultimate impact on the aesthetic environment of the City. He suggested that we look at that very carefully to make sure that we get the best product. Public Works Director Danielson stated that his main concern is with the grading plan as presented. Mr. Hagman stated that what he is understanding through Planner Dahlgren is that there is a real safety problem and when he talked to Mr. Danielson he doesn't get the same type of problem. He stated that there seems to be some discrepancy between the two of them. Planner Dahlgren responded that there is no discrepancy. He stated that they are both concerned about the grades and the driveways. Vice Chair Dwyer asked Mr. Hagman if he has a dispute that there is a grading problem here and a possible safety problem. Mr. Hagman responded that he does not dispute that there is a grading problem. He stated that he has talked to Mr. Danielson about working that out. He stated that if Mr. Danielson feels that we need raise the building then they are more than happy to do SO. Vice Chair Dwyer asked if there was anyone present in the audience who would like to February 28, 1990 Page 10 speak on this matter. Mr. Bill Healey, 2473 Park Lane, questioned what MIST would be doing with the other property that they own. Mr. Hagman stated that they have no use for it at this point. In response to a question from Commissioner Tilsen, Mr. Hagman stated that the Dakota Business Center is made out of scored block. He stated that if the Commission is going to make a requirement for the building to be built with brick it will essential kill the project. Commissioner Tilsen commented that what he thinks that Planner Dahlgren's concerns is the surface appearance of concrete block after several years. Commissioner Tilsen stated that he shares the same concerns about painted concrete. Commissioner Tilsen stated that he is concerned about the exits in the arena. Mr. Boslovich explained the exits in the arena. He stated that there are nine exits in the building. He stated that each large arena has two exits. He further commented that he would like to encourage that the elevation be as near to street level as possible. Commissioner Krebsbach moved to continue the public hearing to March 27, 1990 meeting. Commissioner Dreelan seconded the motion. Mr. Haarman stated that they have put forth a very good design and that they are not building a cheap building. AYES: 1, Krebsbach NAYS: 5 Motion Fails. Commissioner Koll moved to close the public hearing on the zoning ordinance amendment. Commission Duggan seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 1, Krebsbach Commissioner Koll moved to recommend to the City Council that they amend the zoning ordinance to allow participatory athletics as a conditional use within the Industrial Zone. Commissioner Duggan seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 1, Krebsbach Commissioner Duggan moved to continue the public hearing to March 27, 1990 at 8:00 o'clock P.M. for further input from staff and the applicants with regards to grading, drainage, exterior wall finishes and uses. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 CASE NO. 90-03 CENTEX HOMES - REZONING, CUP FOR PUD, WETLAN PERMIT February 28, 1990 Page 11 Commissioner Koll seconded the motion. Commissioner Tilsen offered a friendly amendment to Commissioner Duggan's motion stating that the applicants propose their own list of conditions to help guide the Commission in understanding what they are proposing. Commissioner Duggan accepted the friendly amendment. Vice Chair Dwyer called a recess at 9:25 o'clock P.M. Vice Chair Dwyer opened the meeting at 9:35 o'clock P.M. for the purpose of a public hearing to discuss a request from Centex DSHomes for rezoning, CUP for PUD and a Wetlands Permit. Vice Chair Dwyer explained the hearing procedure to the audience and the role of the Planning Commission. Mr. Dick Putnam, Tandem Corporation, was present to discuss Centex Homes request. He stated that he is working with Centex Homes on this project. He introduced Mr. Tom Boyce, President of Minnesota Division of Centex and Kevin Clark, Project Manager. For the benefit of the Planning Commission and the audience, Mr. Putnam gave a lengthy history and background concerning the approval procedure to date for the Kensington PUD. This included a slide show and presentation of maps and sketch plans relevant to the PUD. Mr. John Huber, Chair of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission, briefly explained the role of the Parks and Recreation Commission in planning the park within Kensington Phase II. He further described the park plan. He stated that Centex has been very good to work with. Mr. Putnam briefly described the proposed development within Kensington Phase II with regards to the condominiums, manor homes, townhomes and single family homes. Vice Chair Dwyer then opened the meeting for public comments. Dan Nichols, 633 Hampshire Drive, stated that he is stunned by the density of the development. He stated that he is against this level of density. He stated that when he was looking to move to Mendota Heights several years ago nothing was mentioned February 28, 1990 Page 12 about the condominiums or the smaller townhomes described. Vice Chair Dwyer questioned Mr. Nichols as to who made those representations and Mr. Nichols stated that the salesperson in the Centex Home model home did. He further commented that most of the people in the room had never heard anything about condominiums and anything at that level of density. Mr. Ridley, 620 Hampshire Drive, stated there were several misrepresentations regarding condominiums and the park referendum. He also stated that he is against the density level. Ms. Hammel, 646 Pond View Terrace, she stated that she is concerned with the density level with respect to City services. She also stated that she is concerned with the amount of people it will bring into the school. Mr. Ecker, 2308 Field Stone Drive, spoke against the rezoning proposed by Centex Homes. He spoke on how the tax base for Mendota Heights will raise. He further stated his concerns with the density level. He also commented on the possible high level of traffic this development may bring. He further stated his concerns regarding the increase of population in the schools. He commented that he wonders what type of person would be attracted to 350 condominiums, townhouses, manor houses. Vice Chair Dwyer reiterated the concerns of the residents with respect to supposed misrepresentations made, density, possible increases in the taxes, traffic problems and school district and asked if there were any comments different from those previously stated. Mr. Ecker, 2308 Fieldstone Drive, expressed his concerns about the impact on the environment. He questioned if there were going to be studies done on the environment. Public Works Director Danielson stated that the City has done an Environmental Assessment Worksheet (EAW) along with the initial application and an Indirect Source Permit (ISP) has been done. He stated that further studies will be conducted during this process. Don Pacdernik, 2472 Hampshire Court, questioned if the plans that have been referred tonight are a done deal. Planner Dahlgren stated that the basic February 28, 1990 Page 13 density pattern was established and approved by the City when they amended the Comprehensive Plan. Planner Dahlgren explained that zoning is different from the Comprehensive Plan. He explained that a Comprehensive Plan is a document which is required under Minnesota law for all communities in the Metropolitan area which is the basis for zoning. He stated that the land use plan designates the land use which includes the density. He stated that in the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, which was done after the Southeast Area Study, that amendment established the density pattern for this whole area. He explained what the pattern was. He stated that there was to be single family homes at 15,000 square feet per lot north of Mendota Heights Road. He stated for the area south of Mendota Heights Road and easterly was designated four units per acre. He stated that the area to the west of the powerlines south of Mendota Heights Road over to Dodd Road was designated at eight units per acre. He stated that the existing ordinance for multi-family housing in the City, at that time, was about 10 units per acre. He stated that the approximate density normal for the R-3 District, the only multi-family housing district in the City, was 10 units per acre, in the process of this study the Council decided to reduce that to eight units per acre. He stated that substantial traffic studies were done and showed that the densities at that rate (4 units per acre to the east of the right-of-way and eight units per acre to the west of the powerline right-of-way, that that would not create undo traffic problems if Mendota Heights Road and Huber Drive were constructed. He stated that plan also envisioned a substantial park plan in the area. He stated that the actual area of parks varied, as Mr. Putnam explained, based on the bond issues that were passed and not passed. Planner Dahlgren stated that with the bond issue that did not pass ultimately Mr. Putnam proposed a relatively large area of parks to be dedicated. He stated that when the plans evolved over time all were done in conformance with those densities established in the Comprehensive Plan. He stated that these plans do not follow the density pattern exactly because Mr. Putnam has added a substantial amount of single family housing south of Mendota Heights Road in an area that was designated at four units per acre. Planner Dahlgren stated that part of the development is at a much lower density than was established in the comprehensive plan and parts of it are individually a little higher, 10 to 12 units per acre. He stated that the density February 28, 1990 Page 14 required in the Comprehensive Plan deals with the over all density. He further explained that a hearing was held last year on a concept plan for the whole area and at that time this basic pattern of developing with a looped street as a public right of way was included in that plan and the basic designation of these park areas plus the trail area and these types of units were in that plan. He explained that the concept of using these different types of housing units had been approved. He further explained that the specific development plan to carry on with the additional detail as represented by the manor homes was what was being reviewed tonight. He stated that to an extent, portions of the plans are done in terms of establishing the basic density pattern, establishing the requirement to build the looped street, dedicate park areas and maintain the ponding areas and develop single family housing. He stated that if all of the development proposed meets these density standards; that basically has been decided. He stated that what is left to be decided is the nature of the units, size, materials, exact configuration of the parks and facilities in the park. He further commented that as a part of considering that detail the final zoning must be considered. He stated that the zoning will be applied when they approve the final PUD. He stated that theoretically if the development conforms to the densities established in the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, then the City has very little ability to change that zoning pattern. Planner Dahlgren stated that there were substantial public hearings held during this process and that he understands some concerns with those residents who have moved in after all of the public hearings had been held. Mr. Pacdernik, 2472 Hampshire Court, stated that he is concerned with the decrease in market value to his home in the future. He further stated that Centex did a fantastic job in building his home and that they have been great to work with but he feels deceived. Greg Schroeder, 594 Watersedge Terrace, commented that had,he know the apartments were to have been built he would not have bought in Copperfield. He further commented on the homes.pictured in the slides Mr. Putnam showed. He stated his concerns for the market value of his home. Harold Beale, 2463 Delaware Avenue, stated that he has attended all of the meetings in the last five years, he stated that he understands that there has been no zoning February 28, 1990 Page 15 change except for the areas that have been developed. He commented that for all of the acreage that exists is still zoned residential. Planner Dahlgren stated that was correct and explained that many cities adopt a comprehensive plan and may leave the underlying zoning as is and act on the zoning at such time as final development plans are approved. Planner Dahlgren further explained that the zoning is a final legal action that puts the comprehensive plan into effect and most communities will withhold that rezoning until the final developments are prepared and approved - usually in a case of multi-family housing in the form of a PUD. In response to a question from 2308 Field Stone Drive, Planner Dahlgren explained that in the State of Minnesota the comp. plan for a City is required by law. He stated that by law the zoning has to conform to the comprehensive plan. He explained that when a City adopts a comprehensive plan that is a stage at which the basic issue of land use and density are decided. He stated that when the zoning portion comes along the zoning districts need to be setup to conform with the density and when the final development plans are ready for review then the zoning is applied to the land in conformance with the comp plan. He stated that once you have adopted a comp plan and densities when someone applies for rezoning or development approval in accordance with those land uses and densities the City has limited ability to turn it down. He explained that they have to have reasons such as the layout does not work out right or buildings are badly designed etc, for turning down the design. He explained that the developer has the legal right to those densities. Robert Prior, 2455 Hampshire Court, Vice Chair Dwyer stated that the City had received a letter from this individual, stated his opposition and questioned whether the comprehensive plan could be changed. He commented that the people in the audience are opposed to condominiums. Glynnis Svendsen, 2300 Field Stone Drive, discussed her calculations in reference to density. Mr. Putnam briefly explained the amount of property left to develop is not very much. He further explained the open land and who owns it and what is proposed. Ms. Svendsen commented that the density level does not seem to work. She further February 28, 1990 Page 16 stated she does not think that anyone has a problem with the townhome concept. She further stated that when you start looking at the "C" word - condominiums - nobody is happy. Mr. Putnam questioned if the manor homes that are under construction right now are offensive to anyone. It was the concensus of the audience that no they are not. Mr. Tom Boyce, President of Centex, stated that they are not talking about building a three story condominium that is up against a freeway that HUD is going to own half of. He stated that they have all seen pictures of what they are proposing and they can see first hand what they are building across the way from their developments. Mr. Boyce stated that the manor homes being built right now are condominiums. Mr. Putnam stated that the homes in Hampshire are going to appear more dense than the ones they are building because there is all park in front of it. He further stated that there seems to be a feeling that when we say condominiums or the "C" word it represents something completely different. The only difference is that the present manor homes are four and eight unit buildings with an attached garage and the ones that are being proposed are 8, 12, 16 unit buildings with a detached garage. He stated that it is almost an identical unit inside. He stated that it would look very strange to have a lot of one thing built over 80 or 100 acres. Mr. Boyce stated that the present manor homes are at 8 units an acre. Mr. Jeff Laramy, 618 Pond View Court, stated his concerns for his property value. Susan Alt, 642 Pond View Terrace, stated that she researched what was proposed for the Hampshire Estates area before she bought in Copperfield. She stated that they were also mislead. She stated that she is concerned with the density level. Mr. Putnam stated that there is a lot of property. He stated that he had just informed a potential buyer in Copperfield about the parks available to him. He stated that they have talked at the Copperfield parties for the last three years about what is going on in the neighborhood. He stated that the reason why there has not been a single plan is because the plan has been changed several times. He stated that the reason why there have been so many plans is February 28, 1990 Page 17 becailse it has not been finalized with very good reasons, not Centex's reasons. He stated that if the personnel in the model centers get confused on pointing out that townhouses go here and it turns out to be a condominium building the reason is that at one point in time it probably was suppose to be townhouse. He stated that if you look at the plans, we have been moving things around the site to try and accommodate ourselves and well as what the City has wanted. He stated that they have taken as a mandate that the City is looking for some active parks. A woman, resident of Copperfield, stated that Mendota Heights is different than Bloomington. She further read an excerpt from the City's Comprehensive Plan. She stated that she had some difficulty in getting information from the City. She explained her concerns for increase in the traffic. She asked what the target market is for these homes. •Mr. Kevin Clark explained the-target market for the homes, the approximate square footage of the homes, the proposed base prices of the homes and the proposed prices of homes with options. He explained the amount of manor homes that they have sold in Kensington. Mr. Clark stated that they do not sell to investors. Mr. Boyce stated that they try to discourage investors. John Siedel, 2459 Hampshire Court, stated that he is disturbed to know that it appears that the Comprehensive Plan is a tight and stringent plan that we have to live by. He stated that he is not excited about the proposed parks because of the possible problems they may bring, i.e. drinking and parties. Steve Gollinger, 686 Apache Lane, stated that he inquired with the City in 1986 about what was to be proposed for this area. He stated that he feels maybe that the City has mislead the residents. Thomas Smith, 625 Hampshire Court, questioned what benefit arises out of the proposal by Centex for the high density development. He further read an excerpt from the Minnesota Real Estate Journal which quoted Planner Dahlgren. He stated that he does not feel that this plan benefits the City as a whole. He further read another excerpt from the Journal which quoted Dick Putnam. He stated that he is surprised by the proposed condominiums. Terry Berg, Copperfield Drive, stated that February 28, 1990 Page 18 he liked the spaciousness and fields in the City. He stated that he was also mislead with regards to high density. Commissioner Tilsen briefly explained that the "battle" is with the City Council and that the role of the Planning Commission is to work with Centex to get a product that suits Mendota Heights as best as we can. In response to a citizen's question as to what can they do as concerned citizens, Vice Chair Dwyer stated that the elected officials of the City are sensitive to the legal rights of the developer and that they are also sensitive to their constituents. He explained that they will have to take the matter up with the City Council. In response to a question from a resident, Vice Chair Dwyer stated that the park land has not been deeded to the City. The above resident then asked if the park land had not been made available to the City would the City had approved this development if the park land were not to be deeded by the City. Planner Dahlgren surmised a guess, no, because park land is a very important ingredient here in as much as the City has gotten themselves into a position where they do not have adequate parks. He explained that the developer is required to dedicate 10 percent of land for park when they final plat. He stated that they have proposed to dedicate much more than that because of the extreme park need that the City finds itself in. Mr. Mc Inerney, 2355 Field Stone Drive, questioned what the role of the Planning Commission is. Vice Chair Dwyer explained that the Commission serves as an advisory body to the City Council. He explained that the Council can abide by their recommendations or it can listen to the applicant's request and make their own decision. Bill Healey expressed his concerns with the high levels of density and the air noise issue. A resident questioned whether Centex could better regulate the prices of their homes. Mr. Boyce responded that there is a limited market in townhomes and that they cannot regulate the prices. Commissioner Duggan assured the residents that the Commission would not spend long hours on an issue if they felt that they did not have a say so on what happens in the City. He stated that the City works long February 28, 1990 Page 19 hours on issues and tries to come up with a reasonable compromise. He stated that we are not going to satisfy everybody. He stated that the developer's have legal rights and that there are a lot of legal contracts already in place. He stated that he likes the idea of more expensive units and that he does not like what he sees being proposed. He also spoke on how the Centex salespeople may have mislead the residents. Commissioner Duggan moved to continue the public hearing to March 27, 1990 at 8:00 o'clock P.M. Commissioner Dreelan seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 SCHEDULING OF It was the concensus of the Commission that JOINT CITY they meet with the City Council on COUNCIL/PLANNING Wednesday, May 2, 1990 at 8:00 o'clock P.M. COMMISSION WORK -for the purpose of a joint workshop to SHOP discuss the zoning ordinance recodification. ELECTION OF OFFICERS VERBAL REVIEW ADJOURNMENT It was the concensus of the Commission to reappoint Mr. Jerry Morson as the Chair of the Planning Commission. It was also the consensus of the Commission to reappoint Mr. Mike Dwyer as the Vice Chair of the Commission. Public Works Director Danielson gave a verbal review to the Planning Commission on City Council action on Planning items. Commissioner Duggan moved to adjourn the meeting at 12:10 o'clock A.M. Commissioner Dreelan seconded the motion. Respectfully submitted, Kimberlee K. Blaeser Senior Secretary