2005-10-24 Planning Comm MinutesPlanning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
October 25, 2005
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Planning Commission was held on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 in the Council Chambers
at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve at 7:30 pm.
The following Commissioners were present: Commissioners B. McManus, Miller, Betlej (Vice Chair), Dolan, Hesse and M.
McManus. Those excused were: Chair Lorberbaum. Commissioners City Staff present were City Engineer Sue McDermott and
Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister. Also present was Planner Steve Grittman. Minutes were recorded by Becki Shaffer.
The meeting was opened by Vice Chair Joe Betlej.
Approval of September 27, 2005
The following changes were sent to City Staff via email from Chair Lorberbaum:
Page 5, 4th parauanh should read as follows:
"Chair Lorberbaum said change is difficult, and told Mrs. Schuster that if this subdivision is granted, she watt d hm,e the bes
eaffffner-eial all this meeting will serve as a great commercial, with respect to the neighborhood, to help her sell the land due to all the
wonderful comments regarding the property, attesting to the desirability of the property.
Page 8.41h naraaranh should read as follows:
"Chair Lorberbaum asked if this ,..°s ° busy st -Feet eea+se it is ° a °°a end for clarification from the planner as to why he identified the
house as on a busy street because it is close to a dead end. Mr. Grittman said that fence would be to provide for privacy adjacent to the
public roadway and this is a corner lot."
Page 13, 4th from bottom paragraph should read as follows:
"Chair Lorberbaum said there is ° „° °a f ° ° better- desig a need for more detailed design information and asked Mr. Doyle if he was
okay with all the suggestions that the Planning Commission has made during this discussion. Mr. Doyle said he is in a general sense,
but the parking in the rear is already there with Classified Class 5and there will be no paving. Mr. Doyle said he is sensitive to the
neighbors' concerns but is not proposing to pave parking lot in the back. Mr. Doyle said there is also some lighting around the
property. Chair Lorberbaum said the City will want to make sure there is adequate lighting."
Page 13, 4th paragraph should read as follows:
City Engineer Sue McDermott explained that Glassifie Class 5 is a gravel surface that is used on roadbeds which is placed underneath
the blacktop. Ms. McDermott said the ordinance requires parking on paved surfaces.
COMMISSIONER B. MCMANUS MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HESSE, TO APPROVE THE MINUTES
OF SEPTEMBER 27, 2005 AS PRESENTED AND AMENDED BY ABSENTEE CHAIR LORBERBAUM.
2 AYES
0 NAYS
3 ABSTENTIONS (Commissioners Betlej, Dolan and M. McManus)
MOTION CARRIED
It is noted that Commissioner Miller arrived at this time.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
HEARINGS
PLANNING CASE #05 -51
Mike and Kathy Doyle — Fischerville Coffee House
2150 Dodd Road
Variance
Vice Chair Betlej said the applicant has requested to have this case be continued to the next meeting.
Mr. Hollister said at the last Planning Commission meeting, there was discussion on this application for a front yard setback variance
for parking spaces. The Planning Commission voted to continue that discussion to this evening's meeting. The day after the meeting,
the Doyle's called City Staff and expressed concern about this coming winter and they wanted to get some semblance of parking
created while the climate was still compatible. Mr. Hollister said he held a meeting with the Doyle's, City Engineer Sue McDermott,
and Planner Steve Grittman to talk about what could be done. It was agreed that if the Doyle's created a parking layout that fully met
all the requirements of the zoning ordinance, then as a matter of course, they are entitled to go directly to City Council for permission
to do that. The Doyle's have come up with a plan that requires no variances and presented to the City Council, which the City Council
approved. Mr. Hollister said this plan in contingent upon approval from MnDOT as the Doyle's will need an access permit from the
State as Dodd Road is a state road. In the meantime, the Doyle's have indicated to City Staff that they intend to withdraw their
variance application because they have a workable plan, and they are under the impression that City Council might not approve this.
City Staff is under the impression that MnDOT may not approve the permit either.
Mr. Hollister said the Doyle's have expressed their intent to give a letter withdrawing this application, but have not yet done so. Mr.
Hollister suggested that the Planning Commission make a motion to continue to the next meeting, but if in the meantime, the City
receives a letter withdrawing the application, this case will be taken off the agenda.
VICE CHAIR BETLEJ MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER M. MCMANUS, TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC
HEARING FOR CASE 05 -51: MIKE AND KATHY DOYLE, UNTIL THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
ON NOVEMBER 22, 2005.
AYES
NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING CASE #05 -52
St. Peters Church
1405 Sibley Memorial Highway
Preliminary and Final Plat, Conditional Use Permit, Variance and Critical Area Permit
Vice Chair Betlej said the Church of St. Peter has requested continuation of this hearing for the condition use permit for the Cave
House to November 22, 2005.
VICE CHAIR BETLEJ MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING
FOR CASE 05 -52: MIKE AND KATHY DOYLE, UNTIL THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON
NOVEMBER 22, 2005.
AYES
NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
PLANNING CASE #05 -55
Chuck and Nancy Reich
625 Hidden Creek Trail
Wetlands Permit
Mr. Grittman shared a map indicating the location of 625 Hidden Creek Trail, in which the applicant is seeking a wetlands permit to
construct a fence and landscaping improvements to the rear yard. This area is within the buffer area of the existing wetland. The
proposed fence is to be a rail fence of aluminum material, and will surround the pool and rear yard of the property. Mr. Grittman said
the fence complies with the zoning requirements and recommends approval.
Commissioner M. McManus referred to the Planner Report recommendation that talks about approval by the City Engineer, and asked
if the City Engineer always needs to approve these types of requests. Mr. Grittman said it's not necessary, but when the request is
close to a wetland area, the Planner usually wants to have input from the City Engineer.
Commissioner B. McManus asked for clarification and purpose of a wetlands buffer. Mr. Grittman explained the criteria and purpose
of the wetland buffer ordinance.
Vice Chair Betlej asked City Engineer Sue McDermott if she had any concerns. Ms. McDermott said she did not.
Mr. Chuck Reich, 625 Hidden Creek Trail, explained how the fence and landscaping would be done. Mr. Reich said the fencing would
be a taupe color.
Commissioner Dolan asked how tall the fence would be. Mr. Reich said it would be a 5 -ft. fence.
Vice Chair Betlej opened the public hearing.
Seeing no one else wishing to speak, Vice Chair Betlej asked for a motion to close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER MILLER MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER B. MCMANUS, TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC
HEARING.
AYES
NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
Vice Chair Betlej closed the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER M. MCMANUS MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE WETLANDS PERMIT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A FENCE AS PRESENTED SUBJECT TO THE
APPROVAL OF THE CITY ENGINEER.
AYES
NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING CASE #05 -56
Elizabeth and Reid PoLome
1861 Victoria South
Conditional Use Permit
Mr. Grittman reviewed the application for a conditional use permit to allow construction of a second accessory structure on the
residential lot located at 1861 Victoria Road. This accessory structure, (gazebo structure which encloses a hot tub) has already been
constructed. The applicant built this structure to serve as protection for the hot tub. Mr. Grittman said the Code Enforcement Officer
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
reported this structure. Mr. Grittman said this lot is of a large size, and the buildings (the storage shed and the gazebo) are both
relatively smaller and therefore poses no negative impacts on the neighborhood.
Commissioner B. McManus said the applicant indicates this is not a permanent building. Commissioner B. McManus asked if the
applicant would still need a permit if he chose to put a tent up over the hot tub? Mr. Grittman said the zoning ordinance has some
restrictions on what types of structures can be located on property, and would have to research to code for any language regarding tent
structures. Mr. Grittman said the Code Enforcement Officer felt this met the definition of a structure.
Commissioner B. McManus referred to the dome that was recently approved for the high school, and that the high school is required to
take this structure down every summer. Commissioner B. McManus asked if there are any differences between the requirement for the
school and the requirement for this case. Mr. Grittman said if the Planning Commissioner feels this gazebo is an appropriate use, given
the location and purpose of this structure, and that this building is not permanently fixed with footings, then a permit may not be
needed.
Commissioner Miller asked if there was lighting inside the structure. Mr. Grittman said he did not know. Commissioner Miller said if
there were lighting and power inside, he would feel that would be a permanent structure.
Mr. Reid PoLome, 1861 Victoria South, said there is no lighting in the building, and if the applicant would be required to take down
the structure on occasion, it would be burdensome. Mr. PoLome said he was not aware that a permit would be needed. Mrs. PoLome
said the structure was placed to keep the hot tub protected from the oak trees that surround it.
Commissioner Miller asked if there is any neighbor opposition. Mrs. PoLome said there has not been, and that the neighbors that have
seen the building said it looks very pretty.
Commissioner M. McManus thanked the applicant for their letter explaining the need for this structures, and providing some
background comments.
Vice Chair Betlej opened the public hearing.
Seeing no one else wishing to speak, Vice Chair Betlej asked for a motion to close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER MILLER MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DOLAN, TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
6 AYES
0 NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
Vice Chair Betlej closed the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER M. MCMANUS MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HESSE, TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL
OF THE CONDITIONAL USE FOR THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AS PRESENTED.
6 AYES
0 NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING CASE #05 -57
Wold Architects / ISD #197
1979 Summit Lane
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Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
Conditional Use Permit for Mendota Heights Elementary School
Mr. Grittman reviewed the application for a conditional use permit to allow 400 cu.yds of fill to be brought into the site work. The
applicant is proposing to remove existing bituminous surfaces which currently comprises of the parking area as well as some additional
access paths, and the concrete sidewalk area at the school's front entrance.
Mr. Grittman said the school is a permitted use in the district, and the permit is needed as the grading is necessary in altering the land.
Mr. Grittman reviewed the map indicating how the parking and traffic flow will operate. These improvements will help with parking
circulation and bus traffic flow on this site.
Mr. Grittman said there are some small building additions that are being done to the project and the applicants have indicated that
those additions will not increase the capacity of the school, but are needed for other programs. Mr. Grittman said the parking demand
will be the same and the parking lot exceeds the city requirements. Mr. Grittman said the parking lot lighting is also in compliance
with all city regulations.
Mr. Grittman indicated where landscaping will be placed, and talked about a pond that will be created to address the runoff from the
parking lot. Mr. Grittman said the pond will be enclosed by fencing and it is his understanding that the pond and all drainage issues
have been reviewed by the City Engineer.
Vice Chair Betlej said the plan shows that the plans show partial fencing around the pond. Mr. Grittman said he does not believe there
is a requirement by the city to enclose ponds.
Commissioner Dolan expressed his concern that the pond is to be located close to the playground.
Commissioner Hesse asked if the applicant will be coming back to the City for any additional approvals? Mr. Grittman said he does
not believe they will need to.
Commissioner M. McManus addressed the landscaping that will be done around the pond area and fencing, and expressed her concern
for the exposure on the side of the neighborhood.
Commissioner Dolan asked if the new pond is necessary because of the added impervious surface. City Engineer McDermott said the
pond is a requirement in order to control the rate of run off and the treatment of storm water. Commissioner Dolan asked if this pond
will be wet most of the time. Ms. McDermott said it will be.
Vice Chair Betlej said the fence is proposed to be 6 -ft high and is that too much height? Mr. Grittman said 6 -ft. is an allowable height
in this application, and the purpose is to protect children playing in that area.
Paul Aplikowski, Weld Architects, thanked the commissioners for their time, and introduced Dave Rey, the architect for the project.
Mr. Aplikowski said there is some misunderstanding about the fill, and that the 400 cu. yds. is a threshold that is used. Mr. Aplikowski
said they will actually be exporting fill in excess of 1,000 cu. yds. for the pond, and it would not be a good idea to keep and expend
that soil across the site as it would disrupt too many features of that site.
Vice Chair Betlej asked if there are any current wetland issues with the existing parking lot. Mr. Aplikowski said the parking lot
currently surface trains into adjacent properties, and know of no reported issues.
Commissioner B. McManus asked if the fencing should be placed inside the landscaping or vice versa. Mr. Rey said the only issue is
that if the fence would be located inside the landscaping, the fence would then move down the slope toward the pond and would not be
aesthetically as pleasing.
Commissioner B. McManus asked how deep the pond will be and what is the opinion of the applicant to have the pond adjacent to the
playground? Mr. Rey said the pond depth at the deepest point is 8 to 9 feet. Mr. Aplikowski said the school would rather not have a
pond because of financial concerns and the school would rather not have a pond on the site, but it is the City's requirement based on
the impervious surface that a pond be placed. The applicant would also like to explore having the fencing completely enclose the
pond.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
Commissioner Miller said there may be some other ways to manage the water without having a pond, and asked the applicant if
underground piping was considered. Mr. Aplikowski said it would be cost - prohibitive to do anything underground.
Vice Chair Betlej asked if any trees will be removed on the south side of the school in order to pave a small sidewalk up to the school.
Mr. Rey explained what trees would be removed.
Commissioner Dolan asked about the pond being wet all the time. Mr. Aplikowski said it would be all the time so that there is a
process of treating the storm water.
Commissioner Dolan asked if there are any traffic circulation issues. Mr. Aplikowski explained how the traffic flows now, and what
they are trying to accomplish.
Commissioner Dolan asked if the path would be replaced. Mr. Aplikowski said the existing path would be replaced up to the property
line and up to the new part. Commissioner Dolan said he lives across the street and the existing path beyond the school property is in
very poor shape. Commissioner Dolan said lots of kids ride their bikes to and from school along that path and are always wiping out
because of the potholes. Mr. Aplikowski said he does not believe the school owns that part of the path. Ms. McDermott said she
agrees that the trail is in poor condition, and perhaps the City could work with the school district to have the City's portion of the trail
replaced at the same time, sharing some costs.
Commissioner Hesse asked if there are any city requirements that address fill taken off the site as it addresses incoming fill. Vice
Chair Betlej said outgoing fill can impact the site with regards to water flow, and that there is the concern for trucks hauling.
Commissioner M. McManus asked what the trigger is for the impervious surface that requires a pond now, as it may be the right thing
to do in cutting back the impervious surface so that a pond is not needed. This pond creates a huge safety issue because there are a lot
of kids that play in that playground. Mr. Aplikowski said it has to do with how the drainage works today opposed to how it will work
after the improvements are made. Mr. Aplikowski said the City requires the parking lot of be curb and guttered, and that will now
allow the runoff to be distributed over the land as it does now. Commissioner Dolan said it appears that the water runoff will be
altered because the applicant will be changing conditions in a way that will be difficult to predict what will happen to the neighbors.
Commissioner M. McManus said there is a huge liability question with this pond, and there needs to be a full range of protection from
kids playing in the area — both supervised and unsupervised activity.
Commissioner M. McManus said there are also questions regarding lighting plans. Mr. Aplikowski said he will make sure this
information gets into the proper hands.
Commissioner M. McManus asked where the landscaping along the fence will be located. Mr. Rey said it needs to be on top of the
hill, outside the landscaping
Vice Chair Betlej opened the public hearing.
Seeing no one else wishing to speak, Vice Chair Betlej asked for a motion to close the public hearing.
VICE CHAIR BETLEJ MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
6 AYES
0 NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
Vice Chair Betlej closed the public hearing.
Tom Strombeck, 1872 Summit Lane, said his home sits on the northeast side of the parking lot, and it doesn't look like his home will
be too adversely affected by what is taking place, but has a concern for the safety of children in the neighborhood. Mr. Stromback said
there are approximately 12 children under the age of 10 that live within 4 doors of the school. Mr. Strombeck said he would like to see
some alternatives to the drainage issues, and this is a huge liability for the neighborhood and school.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
Commissioner B. McManus asked Mr. Strombeck how he would feel if the pond was totally enclosed. Mr. Strombeck said it would
have to be totally enclosed so his kids could not climb over it, but then is concerned about the aesthetics being more industrial.
Geraldine Gunderson, 1960 Walsh Lane, asked what this plan is for and why a pond is needed. Vice Chair Betlej explained the project
and the need to for the pond as proposed. Mrs. Gunderson said there is enough land in that area to allow the drainage to be diverted
into the lawn around the parking lot. Ponds also encourage mosquitos and feels the pond should be eliminated from the plans.
Vivian Kuntz, 1004 Stratford Road, is an emergency room nurse and expressed her concerns for the kids climbing over fencing.
Mr. Aplikowski said the pond is a requirement from the City. Ms. McDermott said all parking areas need to have concrete curb and
gutters around them. Vice Chair Betlej said that because of this code, the concrete curb and gutter around the parking lot requires the
water to be directed to a central collection point. Ms. McDermott said the only storm water system that the applicant can outlet it is a
12 -in. diameter pipe; any tying into that pipe would overload the existing system.
Commissioner B. McManus asked what the scenario would be if the applicant came in asking for a conditional use permit, and do all
the proposed changes without having to install a curb and gutter. Mr. Grittman said a variance would be needed for the deletion of
curb and gutter. Mr. Grittman said that ponds may be unattractive and expensive, but they are valuable in treating stormwater,
especially water off parking lots that contain gas, oil, salt, etc.
Vice Chair Betlej asked if a curb and gutter were eliminated, would the water be able to drain in a fashion that would not cause a water
build up and drain out to the edges of the property. Mr. Rey said without further study, he's not sure, but probably could grade the
land in the same pattern it is today. There is some additional hard surface being added, less than one acre, and would have to account
for that additional runoff. Mr. Rey said without the requirement of the curb and gutter, there are more options opened up to allow for
different ways of grading designs.
Commissioner Miller said it may be possible to use some kind of combination curb and gutter with some rolled curbing, and feels there
is a lot more thinking that could be done on this.
Commissioner M. McManus said the parking spaces have been increased from the required 63 to up to 90, expanding this area. Mr.
Rey they are not adding any parking spaces, but the design will only allow the spaces to be larger.
Vice Chair Betlej asked if the current activities of the school ever max out the parking lot. Commissioner Hesse said it does by a lot.
Commissioner Dolan said it's fair to say for the normal activity of the school, the parking is sufficient. Commissioner Hesse said the
proposal is suggesting increasing the size for additional parking, but only re- configuring the parking lot and will run more efficiently
with these changes; however on nights with special activities, there will still be some parking along Summit Lane.
Mr. Grittman said if the applicant would come is requesting a conditional use permit, they still would need to meet the requirement for
curb and gutter.
Vice Chair Betlej asked when the work will be started. Mr. Aplikowski said they are hoping to begin immediately, although the site
work will not be started until the spring or when school is out.
Commissioner M. McManus said she does not see any information on what other schools have done because of the safety and liability
factors that have been described, and this proposal does not seem very "adult- smart" when it comes to the safety of the children where
they are deliberately creating a situation like this in a neighborhood where there are a lot of kids and the public has spoken out
regarding the safety issues.
VICE CHAIR BETLEJ MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER B. MCMANUS, TO TABLE THIS DISCUSSION
UNTIL THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WITH THE IDEA THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD COME
BACK WITH THE REDESIGN OF THIS, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE THE NECESSITY OF A VARIANCE
FOR THE EXCLUSION OF THE CURB AND GUTTER OFF THE PARKING LOT, ALLOWING TO SHEET DRAIN,
AND TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR THE POND.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
AYES
NAYS (Commissioner Dolan)
MOTION CARRIED
Further Discussion
Commissioner Dolan said he is not in favor of tabling because Staff has not weighed in on whether they would be accepting of a
different drainage system.
Commissioner B. McManus said this motion has given the permission to come to the city with the necessary changes. Commissioner
B. McManus said he is convinced that the applicant can come up with some alternatives.
Commissioner Dolan said he wanted to save the applicants time and expense of having to come back again if City Staff is of the mind
that a pond, curb and gutter are needed, and that any alternatives will not work.
VERBAL REVIEW — Sue McDermott
PLANNING CASE #05 -42 Joseph and Betty Schuster — Preliminary Plat for a Simple Subdivision
• City Council tabled until after the Infill Workshop is held and will be going back before the City Council on November 15th
PLANNING CASE #05 -43 Troy Buege — Conditional Use Permit and Variance
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -44 David Olson— Conditional Use Permit
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -46 Maureen Haggerty — Conditional Use Permit and Wetlands Permit
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -47 Alice Baier — Conditional Use Permit
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -48 Rod Cina - Variance
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -49 Tim Dyrhaug — Critical Area Permit and Variance
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -50 Lawrence Fryklund — Variance
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -52 St. Peters Church — Preliminary and Final Plat, CUP, Variance, Critical Area Permit
• City Council approved for the Critical Area Permit only and will not be granted a Certificate of Occupancy until they receive all
the other permits.
PLANNING CASE #05 -53 Mendakota Animal Hospital - Variance
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
PLANNING CASE #05 -54 City of Mendota Heights — Wetlands Permit and Critical Area Permit
• City Council approved as recommended by the Planning Commission.
Vice Chair Betlej asked a show of hands for any Planning Commission members that will be able to attend the Joint
Council /Commission Infill Workshop Meeting. Those able to attend are Commission M. McManus and possibly Chair Lorberbaum.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
Vice Chair Betlej requested that the next time City Council sets a joint meeting, that they will at least send out a request to check the
availability of people to attend.
Commissioner Dolan asked if this meeting will be televised. Mr. Hollister said it will not be.
Commissioner M. McManus asked if there were any materials sent out for this meeting. Mr. Hollister said City Staff is in the process
of assembling the materials at this time and will be distributed by Friday.
COMMISSIONER B. MCMANUS MOVED, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DOLAN, TO ADJOURN THE MEETING
AT 9:00 PM.
4 AYES
0 NAYS
MOTION CARRIED
Respectfully submitted,
Becki Shaffer, Recording Secretary
Planning Commission Meeting
October 25, 2005
10