2003-01-21 City Council minutesPage No. 1
January 21, 2003
CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY
STATE OF MINNESOTA
Minutes of the Regular Meeting
Held Tuesday, January 21, 2003
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, the regular meeting of the City Council, City of Mendota
Heights, Minnesota was held at 7:30 o'clock p.m. at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights,
Minnesota.
CALL TO ORDER Mayor Huber called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The following
members were present: Mayor Huber, Councilmembers Duggan,
Krebsbach, Schneeman and Vitelli.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
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Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
The City Council, audience and staff recited the Pledge of
Allegiance.
Councilmember Duggan moved adoption of the revised agenda for
the meeting.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Councilmember Krebsbach moved approval of the amended minutes
of the regular meeting held on January 7, 2003.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
CONSENT CALENDAR Councilmember Duggan moved approval of the consent calendar for
the meeting, revised to move items 5a, Park and Recreation
Commission minutes, 5f, video monitors, 5h, Centre Pointe parking,
and 5j, MSA street designation, to the regular agenda, along with
authorization for execution of any necessary documents contained
therein.
a. Acknowledgment of the minutes of the January 8, 2003 Airport
Relations Commission meeting.
b. Acknowledgment of the Fire Department monthly report for
December.
c. Acknowledgment of an informational memo from Administrator
Lindberg regarding the EAW process for the Garron/Acacia site.
Page No. 2
January 21, 2003
d. Approval of the appointment of Councilmember Vitelli to
replace former Councilmember Dwyer on the Joint Airport
Zoning Board.
e. Authorization for execution of a contract with Safe Assure for
safety training for 2003.
f. Adoption of Resolution No. 03-06, "A RESOLUTIN
RENEWING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO LINDER'S
GREENHOUSES TO OPERATE A TEMPORARY
SEASONAL GARDEN CENTER IN THE PARKING LOT OF
MENDOTA PLAZA UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS."
g. Adoption of Resolution No. 03-07, "A RESOLUTION
APPROVING THE APPLICATION OF THE CITY OF
MENDOTA HEIGHTS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2003 DAKOTA
COUNTY COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
FUNDING."
h. Approval of the list of contractor licenses dated January 21,
2003.
i. Approval of the List of Claims dated January 21, 2003 and
totaling $1,339,369.18.
Councilmember Krebsbach seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES Councilmember Schneeman commended the Parks and Recreation
Commission for taking considerable time with the young people who
were present at the January 14 meeting to discuss the skateboard
park. She stated that there were many very good comments by the
commission members and the presenters, and she congratulated the
commission members for their thoughtfulness.
Councilmember Schneeman moved to acknowledge the minutes of
the Parks and Recreation Commission meeting held on January 14.
Councilmember Krebsbach seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
VIDEO MONITORS Council acknowledged a memo from City Hall Building Manager
Guy Kullander regarding closed circuit video monitors for City Hall.
Page No. 3
January 21, 2003
Mayor Huber stated that he pulled the item from the consent calendar
because the cost is greater than what the previous Council
authorized. He asked the Councilmembers if they prefer the
proposal that had been approved or the adjusted proposal being
recommended.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he attended the meeting at which
this issue had been discussed and Councilmember Vitelli had felt
that lease versus purchased would result in a long term savings. The
current proposal is more money, but the future cost is only for minor
maintenance. In that case, the current recommendation may be a
better deal for the city.
Mr. Kullander responded that his first recommendation was based on
discussions in 1999. At that time, VHS video tape was the method
of recording. With the improvements in recording, it is all software
based, and storage is greatly extended. The city's maintenance cost
will be much lower and the police officers will have the opportunity
to freeze what they are looking for and save it to a cd. Only one
company wanted to give the city a lease option, and their cost was
much greater than purchase.
Responding to a question from Councilmember Krebsbach about the
number of cameras, Mr. Kullander stated that the original proposal
was for eight zoom cameras. Fixed cameras can now be purchased
for a couple of the locations. If any of the cameras were to be
eliminated, the only place to save money would be in the three
cameras for the upper parking lot. Those were included, because if
there is activity in the lot at night, the police department can observe
what is happening.
Councihnember Schneeman asked if it would be expensive to add
coverage for the entry into the Council Chambers in the future.
Mr. Kullander responded that it would probably cost $750 to $1,000.
The recorder that is being recommended will accommodate up to
sixteen cameras so that more can be added in the future if desired.
Councilmember Duggan stated that when the issue was discussed on
December 2, Councilmember Krebsbach asked that there not be any
cameras in the lobby.
Page No. 4
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Schneeman stated that the lobby is a concern to her,
and she wanted assurance that equipment could be added in the
future in case Council wants it.
Mr. Kullander stated that there was an incident in the lobby in the
past and the police were reluctant to come up without knowing what
was going on. If there were a monitor over the front desk, they could
have seen what was happening and anticipated what to do.
Responding to questions from Council, he stated that there is no
audio and that it is an excellent system, provided by a local company.
Councilmember Duggan stated that given the economic times, he
would support cameras for the police level at this time and wait a
year for to expand the system. That would also allow the police to
gain a comfort level with the equipment.
Councilmember Vitelli asked which department would be
responsible for the cost continued operation and maintenance and
which department will take care of the operation.
Mr. Kullander responded that the system would be funded by the
building maintenance fund. Only a couple of police officers will be
responsible for making sure the system is working. The only routine
costs will be for CDs and minor maintenance and possibly assistance
with programming. He anticipated that those costs would be less
than $2,000 over a five year period.
Acting Police Chief Anderson recommended including cameras for
the upper level parking lot. He stated that there has been damage to
vehicles and theft from vehicles during ball games. Also, this
system will accommodate a transition from analog to digital cameras
in the interview room when the courts accept the digital format.
Responding to a question from Mayor Huber, Mr. Kullander stated
that there are four city vehicles parked in the upper lot every day and
the number of vehicles parked in the police lots varies from day to
day.
Councilmember Krebsbach asked how many incidents there have
been in the upper lot.
Mr. Kullander responded that he has heard of several, second hand
from baseball coaches.
Councilmember Vitelli asked if installation of the system will reduce
the city's insurance rates.
Page No. 5
January 21, 2003
Finance Officer Schabacker responded that he will contact the
insurance carrier.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that she would like the upper
level parking lot monitors included because there have been
instances of people lurking in the parking lot after city meetings and
it is a safety concern.
Councilmember Duggan moved to authorize issuance of a purchase
order to Lakeland Security Systems in the amount of $17,186.63 for
the purchase of the system as recommended, without upper level
lobby cameras.
Councilmember Vitelli seconded the motion.
Ayes: 4
Nays: 1 Krebsbach
CENTRE POINTE PARKING Council acknowledged a memo from Public Works Director
Danielson regarding a request from Roseville Properties for "no
parking zones" on Centre Pointe Drive.
Councilmember Duggan suggested that perhaps yellow marking on
the curbs, similar to what other cities do, could be done instead of no
parking signs.
Public Works Director Danielson responded that most cities use both
the yellow marking and signs because people cannot see the painted
curbs in the winter.
Councilmember Duggan moved adoption of Ordinance No. 374,
"AN ORDINANCE PROHIBITING PARKING AT VARIOUS
LOCATIONS ON CENTRE POINTE BOULEVARD AND
CENTRE POINTE DRIVE."
Councilmember Vitelli seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
DELAWARE AVENUE MSA Council acknowledged a memo from Public Works Director
Danielson regarding the county's turn back of the portion of
Delaware Avenue between Dodd Road and Annapolis Street to the
city, and designating that segment of Delaware as an MSA route.
Responding to a question from Councilmember Schneeman, Public
Works Director Danielson stated that the $215,600 received from the
county in conjunction with the turn back was placed in a special
�' MSA fund waiting for the project to proceed.
Page No. 6
January 21, 2003
Mayor Huber informed the audience that there was an article in the
most recent city newsletter regarding the TH 110/Delaware Avenue
intersection to inform residents that upgrading the intersection is
dependent upon acquiring a MnDOT cooperative agreement grant.
The grant has been approved, and the intersection will be upgraded.
Public Works Director Danielson stated this a complicated issue,
since a county road intersects with a state highway and there are
three communities involved. Because there is a problem making left
turns from Delaware onto TH 110, the city requested MnDOT to
improve the intersection. MnDOT agreed that it was a necessary
improvement, but that the project would compete with all of the
other state projects. They suggested that the city apply for the grant
with the county. The county did apply for the grant with the
concurrence from the three cities (Mendota Heights, Sunfish Lake
and West St. Paul) that they would participate in the funding.
Surveying will start this summer, and the county will also begin
acquiring right -of -way and designing the project, with construction
anticipated for 2004.
Mayor Huber stated that all three cities, the county and MnDOT all
participated in making the upgrade a reality. He stated that there
have been several serious accidents at this intersection, and
expressed appreciation to everyone who worked on this issue.
EAW Mayor Huber explained the Garron/Acacia site EAW process for the
audience, stating that staff has met with the EQB and Barr
Engineering regarding the process. He reviewed the staff memo,
stating that one question that was raised two weeks ago was whether
any of the data could be omitted from the worksheet. It has been
determined that all of the questions on the EAW form must be
answered. Staff will be meeting with Mr. Ron Clark when he is in a
position to move forward and the city will likely retain an
independent consultant to help the city complete the EAW. It is
important to make sure that people who are experts in the field are
used to assist with the EAW.
City Attorney Schleck stated that it is important to realize there are
people who can help cities and move the process along more quickly,
but that expertise is not free. The initial discussion with Mr. Clark
was to work cooperatively with the city to get this done in the proper
manner. Staff will meet with Mr. Clark tomorrow and inform
Council on the discussion at the next meeting.
Page No. 7
January 21, 2003
LEGISLATIVE MATTERS State Representative Tom Pugh was present to give Council a brief
overview on the legislative agenda for 2003.
Mayor Huber introduced Representative Pugh and stated that his
district now includes all of Mendota Heights. He stated that
Representative Pugh has been in the legislature for seven terms and
is on a number of committees. He stated that Council wants to make
sure they always understand what is going on at the state and
appreciates Representative Pugh's attendance at the meeting.
Representative Pugh stated that Senator Metzen had planned on
attending as well but the democratic caucus decided to meet this
evening at 5:00 p.m. He stated that his purpose in coming this
evening is to let Council know the legislature is back in session.
Redistricting changed the way Mendota Heights was represented at
the legislature. Currently all of the city is in District 39/39A, and he
and Senator Metzen can now devote their full attention to Mendota
Heights and residents will not have to determine who their state
legislators are by whether they live north or south of T.H. 110. The
primary focus this session will be the budget. Mendota Heights has
done its streets, parks, public development and community centers
with very little dependence on the state and receives only $1.16 per
person from the state in aid versus $179 per person in South St. Paul
and $189 in West St. Paul. The legislature's deliberation on the
budget should not impact Mendota Heights much because the city is
not very dependent on the state, but there may be impact if there are
cuts in state funding for schools. He stated that if the city needs help
from him or Senator Metzen, they stand ready and willing to help as
much as possible.
Mayor Huber expressed appreciation for Representative Pugh's
participation with the Rogers Lakeside East group. He announced
Representative Pugh's phone number and email address so that
residents can contact him if they have matters they would like to talk
to him about.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that a resident is very concerned
about the goose population and asked if there is anything that can be
done on the state level.
Representative Pugh responded that the individual did contact him,
and he agrees with the sentiment of the city that it is not appropriate
to open a hunting season. Many cities are concerned, and citizens
can bring the issue to their legislators and he and they will look into
it.
Page No. 8
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Krebsbach expressed Council's appreciation for
Representative Pugh's support for the city's TIF district and his
interest in the airport.
STEINER HIPPOTHERAPY Ms. Tracy Steiner was present to discuss her concept for a
hippotherapy ranch at the former Burow farm. Ms. Steiner read a
letter she had submitted to Council describing the operation. She
stated that the current zoning is not suitable for horses. She met with
Assistant Hollister and the city planner to discuss the viability of her
proposal and they suggested bringing the concept to Council for
discussion on whether the land must be rezoned. With regard to
financing, she stated that some of the neighbors have discussed
buying the land to block development. She has contacted the state
about grant money and with the county about use of preservation
funds. Her organization would own the horses and assume the
liability, bring the buildings up to code, and maintain the buildings.
She stated that there is community support for keeping the farm..
The US Bank will accept bids on the property until December 31. It
is her plan to have financial support necessary to submit a bid by that
date pending zoning. She stated that she will submit all necessary
planning applications.
Mayor Huber stated that he believes the Courage Center currently
has a similar facility but that it operates only during the summer
months.
Ms. Steiner responded that they do and that she has contacted the
Courage Center to see if they are interested in this program. Her
program could extend into the spring and fall, but she does not yet
have a definitive business plan so she does not know about running
an indoor operation.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he would be comfortable
supporting the idea of zoning for horses and that he is aware that
most of the neighbors want to keep the farm. The question is over
finances. He stated that this discussion may be premature since it is
occurring before bidding is completed. While he supports the idea,
there are many challenges in pursuing it. He asked whether the old
house would be moved.
Ms. Steiner responded that it would be brought up to code and used
as an office.
Page No. 9
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Duggan stated that bringing the house up to code
would take a great deal of money. Also, handicapped access might
also be a challenge. He stated that he would hope someone would
put together the costs for a basic concept plan for this site if Ms.
Steiner is successful in being the lead bidder. Right now it is
nebulous.
Ms. Steiner stated that she is asking that Council look at the zoning
issue. She has not written a definitive business plan yet, and she is
here to see if there is interest in the concept.
Councilmember Duggan responded that he would support the idea of
rezoning if necessary.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she thinks a conditional use
permit would be appropriate within the existing zoning to allow the
horses. She does not have a problem with horses on the property but
thinks there needs to be some definition for this use other than
hospital.
City Attorney Schleck stated that if Council is in favor of this
concept, there is a way to navigate the zoning ordinance. The actual
logistics of the ordinance is probably not the most complicated part
of this.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he would support the concept if
80% of the adjacent neighbors are in favor of it. He would not
support any city financing. Also, Council would need a solid
definition of what business this will be and what structures will be
used. The key is neighborhood support.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that the concept has her blessing
but she has the same questions and concerns as the other Council
members.
Mayor Huber stated that this would be an intriguing use of the land,
reasonably consistent with the prior use and in character with what is
there. Obviously there is a question of fmancing and the city has no
money to put into it.
COUNCIL COMMENT Councilmember Duggan stated that Council's weekly
communication from staff included information on the dangers of
static electricity and pumping gas. He asked staff to be copy the
information to the local gas stations.
Page No. 10
January 21, 2003
BALLFIELD LIGHTS Council acknowledged a memo from Parks Project Manager
Kullander in response to a request from Mr. Scott Miller (MHAA)for
ballfield lights at Mendakota Park, the Civic Center ballfield, St.
Thomas Academy's varsity baseball field, and the Sibley fields.
Council also acknowledged letters from Mr. Miller, Mr. Chris
Meyers, Men's softball manager, St. Thomas Academy and MHAA,
and a memo from Independent School District 197.
Mr. Miller stated that MHAA is running out of fields in Mendota
Heights and he put together a packet of information that includes the
letters of support. There are many youth who are playing baseball at
older ages and while there are an abundance of softball fields there
are not enough baseball fields for youth aged 14 and up. Softball has
begun to fall off in numbers due to the upgraded facilities in other
cities. He felt it is time for Mendota Heights to upgrade its facilities
by adding lights, which would allow more games at Mendakota and
the Civic Center, and the varsity fields at Sibley and St. Thomas. He
stated that he knows the neighbors would like to have input and he
has no problem with that. He can work with them for times for the
lights to be turned out and work with the police to be sure people do
not linger in the parking lots after games. In 1996 Council said they
would revisit this issue if there were a need shown.
Mayor Huber stated that Council needs to know how the proposal ,
would be funded.
Finance Officer Schabacker stated that she spoke with Mr.
Kullander, and he estimated that the cost for lighting all four of the
fields would be about $970,000. If Council wishes to issue bonds, it
could either use equipment certificates or hold a referendum.
Equipment certificates have a payback over four years, and the total
issue would be $1,015,000. The city would have to levy a quarter of
that amount each year for four years to cover the annual payments.
The current net levy is $3.6 million. The referendum option would
give a longer pay back and Council could set the length at ten or
more years. That option would increase the net levy by 3.37% per
year. The estimated tax increase for the equipment certificate option
on a $150,000 home would be $120 per year: the tax increase would
be $240 per year on a $300,000 home. Over a ten year period
(referendum option), the taxes would increase $52 per year on a
$150,000 market value, and about $104 per year on a $300,000
home.
Councihnember Krebsbach stated that if there were a referendum,
the increase in the budget from this item alone would be 3.7 %. She
Page No. 11
January 21, 2003
pointed out that Council tries to keep the increase under 4 %, so this
would bring the increase to 7.37 %.
Mayor Huber pointed out that would only be if Council approved the
whole proposal.
Mr. Miller stated that he has an estimate from Collins electric and
came up with a figure of just over $500,000. If the Sibley girls'
varsity field were included, it would be a total of about $500,000.
Mr. Kullander responded that the numbers Mr. Miller is dealing with
relate just to the electrical. Staff did an estimate for lights at
Mendakota a few years ago and there are many other costs involved,
including disrupting irrigation and bringing electricity in and also
there are overhead costs for the city including inspection and plan
preparation.
Councilmember Vitelli asked when the sun typically sets.
Mr. Miller responded that it starts to get dark by 9:15 in the summer.
MHAA would pick up time by doing fall leagues and weekends.
Adult softball could host some championships. There are many
children interested in playing fall baseball, which extends MHAA's
season and extends the opportunity of the city to expand its softball
program. He realizes this is a major investment but his property
taxes have come down by a third over the past few years.
Councilmember Vitelli asked if Sibley and St. Thomas are willing to
pay anything for lights.
Mr. Miller responded that he is trying to put together a proposal to
see what the city can do. The city has a larger investment in the
Sibley park, and he believes St. Thomas would be interested in a
joint powers agreement.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that some of his children are still
involved in softball in Northfield and he feels it is very healthy.
They have lighted fields to play on. On the negative, it seems like a
lot of money for just another hour or two. He would not be willing
to pay money to light St. Thomas or Sibley if they are not willing to
pay something.
Councilmember Schneeman noted that the city has a joint powers
agreement with the school district for Sibley Park and asked who
would get first priority on field use.
Page No. 12
January 21, 2003
Mr. Miller responded that the school district has first priority during
the school year and when school is over, MI-lAA has first choice.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that her problem is the timing.
Council does not know what to expect this year because of all of the
state financial problems.
Councilmember Duggan asked how many more games could be
played in a year if the fields were lighted.
Mr. Miller estimated at least 30 more games in a season. St. Thomas
estimated that lighting its varsity field would add an additional 80 to
100 games per season.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he has heard over the years that
the Sibley agreement has not worked very well. Several people from
MHAA have come to the city to complain that they are often locked
out of the fields. Should Council decide to spend a substantial
amount of money at Sibley, he would want a change in that
agreement. He asked about how many more games would be played
there with lights.
Mr. Miller responded that he would expect 80 to 100 more games a
year.
C,
Councilmember Duggan stated that the most voiced opposition
would likely be from residents near Mendakota Park. He asked if
there have been major improvements in electronics so that the
lighting can be more effective without bothering the neighbors. He
stated that Council needs to have a clear representation on what the
lumens would be. He asked if the cell tower ordinance would apply
to the height of the light poles. The proposed poles are 80 feet tall,
and the cell tower ordinance allows heights of up to 75 feet. He also
asked if there have been any complaints about the lighted fields at St.
Thomas.
Mr. Miller responded that almost 100% of the illumination can be to
the fields, with baffled lights.
Public Works Director Danielson stated that he is not aware of any
complaints about the St. Thomas lights.
Administrator Lindberg stated that the cell tower only relates to cell
towers, so that height limitation would not apply.
Page No. 13
January 21, 2003
Mr. Miller stated that the reason Sibley was locked was because they
had vandalism in the past. MHAA has the first priority but the kids
who comprise the VFW and American Legion teams are from
Mendota Heights. MHAA tries to work with their varsity teams at
the Sibley Park. There are eight teams vying for four fields. The
Sibley area amateur baseball team is looking for a field as well.
Councilmember Duggan stated that paragraph 5.2 of the Sibley Park
joint powers agreement says fields should be available to the city
after 6:00 p.m. He asked how many times there have been MHAA
games at Sibley Park after 6:00.
Mr. Miller responded that the VFW and Legion play 40 to 60 games
there. The MI AA traveling program is also there and they play a 24
to 28 game schedule. MHAA tries to work in 30 games between the
two fields.
Councilmember Krebsbach asked what kind of timeline Mr. Miller is
looking at. She stated that Council could look at the issue as part of
the budget planning process this summer.
Mr. Miller responded that he could get answers to wattage versus
lumens and answer the other questions by then.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that one thing she watches is that
people can be served. If women are actually playing softball in a
different community, she would want to know that. She would not
support the civic center ballfield lighting because it is not in the park
system. While she likes the ballfield use on the site, she would
caution about that investment because the area may be needed for
City Hall expansion in the future. Also, she was concerned about the
impact of lighting on the neighbors. The field she sees as most
viable for lighting is the St. Thomas field. That would not affect
surrounding neighbors.
Mr. Frank Friedman, 906 Mendakota Court, stated that he was
present when this proposal came up in 1996 and he was also on a
committee then, consisting of neighbors, MHAA, and members of
the Council and Planning Commission, that worked on the ballfield
lighting issue. MHAA had put together a proposal at that time to
light Mendakota Park. The committee went through a long process
looking at all the issues. He did not know if a final report was done.
If it was, that would be helpful. now. From what he remembers of
what was done, there were a lot of issues discussed. The big issue
was demand versus capacity, and it was determined that there really
Page No. 14
January 21, 2003
wasn't the demand. There was anecdotal information, but working
the numbers, the committee found that there was no capacity issue. f
What it came down to was what level of service the city wanted to
offer. The committee determined that the capacity was sufficient and
did not need to be increased. He remembered the issue of the 90 foot
baselines and that was the issue. Mendakota is a softball park.
Softball games are timed, but baseball games are open ended. The
capacity issue was that MI3AA could not schedule a second game
because they didn't know when the first game would end. One of
the other very big issues was aesthetics, and how the fields would
look when they were lit and how they would look the rest of the year
when they were not lit. It was determined by many people on the
committee that 80 foot poles was not the look they wanted. Lots of
other activities occur at Mendakota Park and having the poles was
not appealing. This just did not seem to fit the Mendota Heights
image. He stated that looking at the numbers that have been put
together is important rather than taking anecdotal information.
Mayor Huber asked Mr. Friedman, if Council came to the conclusion
that lighting is something they want to look at, whether he sees it at
least being a not overly burdensome request to the neighborhood to
at least discuss the matter again. He felt Council generally knows
what the neighborhood thinks, so he has some concerns about ('
dragging the issue up again, but he is reluctant not to talk about it.
There is some new information to gather because there are other
neighborhoods that would be affected.
Mr. Friedman stated that he would want to be involved in
discussions. Out of respect for MHAA, he feels Council needs to
consider the issue and see if there is any new information, and he
would be happy to participate in the discussions.
Mayor Huber stated that he envisions this as two tracks, the
neighborhood issue and financing. There may be some debate about
the numbers, but if staff's estimate is right, to do the entire package
would be very difficult to get approved. The impact of equipment
certificates on the budget would be very significant. At a minimum,
Council would have to find that this is very important to the city, but
if the residents were open to increasing their taxes by that amount
over four years, there might be debate over whether there is
something else the money should be spent on. The other option
would be a referendum, and everyone has their own thoughts over
whether there would be enough support to pass a referendum.
l
Page No. 15
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that if Council feels there should
be a referendum, she believes it should be similar to the referendum
in the late 1980's, and that would be to put a whole package
together, including trails, etc.
Mayor Huber suggested that Council may want to consider a scaled
down version of the request. The city has a history of being fiscally
conservative. He stated that having participated in the two park
referendums, lighting ballfields is an item Council had the
opportunity to get input on a number of times, and he is relatively
sure how the neighbors feel about it. His feeling is that the city
should engage the neighbors in discussions but that there feelings are
probably already known. Since it has been six or seven years since
the last discussion on lighting, he is inclined to say that Council
should look at the issue, but the way to do that is to refer the matter
to the Parks and Recreation Commission. He would be agreeable to
placing it on their agenda, but he would want them to look at setting
up a process to engage the affected neighborhoods.
Councilmember Krebsbach questioned whether there is enough
support for this issue to even engage the city in that discussion. She
supported Councilmember Vitelli's suggestion that there should be
contributions from either Sibley or St. Thomas. She did not feel that
the neighborhoods should be involved now. If Council does not
think the money would be available, she cannot see why Council
would want to get the neighborhoods activated. She felt that if there
is a field that is a go to look at, it is St. Thomas, if they contribute,
because no neighborhood would be impacted. She did not think the
Mendakota area residents should be engaged in this issue.
In response to comments from Mr. Miller that hockey rinks are lit
until 9:00 at night, Councilmember Krebsbach stated that baseball is
more of an activity generating sport - there are more people and more
impact on a neighborhood than a hockey rink.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that there are many children in
the community and she did not think Council should always look at
just aesthetics. She stated that she would love to have baseball field
lighting and thinks it would be healthy for the community. She
supported going to the Parks and Recreation Commission and asking
them to study the issue and look at other park and recreation needs.
Councilmember Duggan suggested that the fields that are least
objectionable are the St. Thomas fields. St. Thomas should be asked
if they would contribute $20,000 to lighting.
Page No. 16
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Vitelli felt that St. Thomas should pay half of the
cost, and that Sibley should not be considered. The school district
does not have money, and he did not want to consider it without their
financial participation. He would not ask the Park and Recreation
Commission to waste their time on Mendakota, and he would also
throw out the City Hall field. He supported looking at St. Thomas as
a beginning and see if they will assist in the financing. If those fields
are lit, Council could then see what the usage really is. He
questioned that lighting would generate 80 to 100 extra games there.
Mayor Huber stated that there seems to be a consensus to give the
issue to the Parks and Recreation Commission to consider the St.
Thomas site. He stated that he would have a really hard time with
Mendakota and cannot see it being lit. He could consider the Sibley
site if the school district participates in financing, and would like to
take a look at the Civic Center site. He stated that he acknowledges
the comments made that it is not part of the park system, but it is
being used by the park system. The possibility of City Hall being
expanded to encompass that field is as remote as a ground swell of
support for Mendakota. He stated that asking the Parks and
Recreation Commission to look at it does not mean Council supports
it.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she feels there would be
neighborhood reaction to the Civic Center. She further stated that
the order of preference is important.
Councilmember Vitelli moved to refer the issue of lighting at St.
Thomas and the civic center ballfield to the Parks and Recreation
Commission for review and for a recommendation on financing if
the Commission recommends lighting.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
SKATEBOARD PARK Council acknowledged a memo from Parks Project Manager
Kullander regarding development of a skateboard park in the Rogers
Lake Park tennis courts.
Mr. Kullander informed Council that this issue has been before the
Parks and Recreation Commission for nearly two years and they
have gathered basic information and analyzed the city parks to see
which might be suitable. The commission held a hearing on the
Friendly Hills site, and most of the people were supportive of a
skateboard park but not at Friendly Hills because some of the homes
Page No. 17
January 21, 2003
are very close and because the rinks were being used for other
activities like bike rodeos and roller blading. At that meeting,
several of the residents suggested that the city look at the tennis
courts are Rogers Lake, which are not used very much. The city's
park staff say that they are the least utilized of any tennis courts in
the city. The commission held an informational meeting and about
25 people attended. The meeting was advertised in the city
newsletter and local papers, and he received one negative call and
one positive call prior to the meeting. He has received one negative
call and one positive one since the meeting. The commission is
recommending that Council authorize the skateboard park use and
that $25,000 from the Special Park Fund be budgeted to convert
fencing, make minor changes and purchase equipment. Before
discussing design, the commission wanted to see if Council is
willing to make the improvements. This type of skateboard park
would require daily walk through by city staff and would also require
two street lights and a portable rest room. Those costs are not
anticipated in the existing park budget, so the budget would likely be
overspent by about $1,000 plus 100 man hours. There is a rest room
close to the fishing pier but that serves the play area and pier. It is
about 600 feet away from the tennis courts. Responding to a
questions from Councilmember Vitelli, he stated that the skateboard
park would cost about $25,000 at this location but would cost about
$40,000 at any other park.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he would estimate the annual
maintenance cost to be $5,500, using a figure of $30 per hour in
wages and benefits for a member of the parks department staff, for
150 hours a year, plus $500 for the lighting and $300 for the portable
rest room.
Mr. Kullander responded that the cost depends on whether the walk
throughs to check for loose bolts, etc., and maintenance can be done
by existing park man hours or a part time person if one needs to be
hired because of liability issues. The equipment must be inspected
every day. The Parks and Recreation commission recommended
setting a limit of $22,000 for the elements and if the park is
successful, the tennis court area is large enough to handle a lot more
ramps in the future.
Councilmember Vitelli asked how many people use the tennis courts.
Mr. Kullander responded that he does not know, but the parks staff
based their comment on how many people they see there and how
Page No. 18
January 21, 2003
much trash there is. He did receive a call from one person who said
he uses the tennis court every day.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that the Recreation Programmer's
report stated that she attended a workshop on skate parks and within
a year they have to be staffed. She stated she realizes Mr. Kullander
is talking about building the park, but she has a concern about
needing someone to staff it.
Mr. Kullander responded that the comment in the report must be
taken in the context of where the skateboard parks are located. Most
of the parks she was talking about are in densely developed areas
with lots of other park activities. Many of the complaints were about
noise. Where they are located near police departments or are in
remote locations, they did not require staffing. Eagan has a remote
location and does not get complaints about it. The home closest to
the Rogers Lake location is 550 feet away. The site is also very
visible to police from Wagon Wheel on a drive by basis. He stated
that a college student was hired to monitor the Friendly Hills Park a
couple of years ago, and that could be done for the skate park if
necessary. During the summer he estimate that children would be
skating from 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., and those would be the hours
that staffing would be needed if there is a problem. He stated that
the fencing is 10 feet tall, and the park can be easily locked. With .
respect to maintenance time, he stated that the parks crew currently
goes to every park every day to collect trash. If the skate park is
constructed, they would likely be asked to check this park first — it
would not be a special destination. Signs would also be installed to
ask users to report any defects.
Councilmember Krebsbach asked if there is any frequency on loose
bolts, etc. and whether special liability insurance is required.
Mr. Kullander responded that until the products are selected, he will
not know what the frequency of repair need is. Because this would
be a tier one park, there is no additional insurance need and the
insurance carrier does not require that the park be supervised. There
would, however, need to be an established maintenance schedule.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he would support the idea of a
skateboard park but suggested that there be more stringent
monitoring for the first year, and if there are no problems, look at
illuminating it the next year. He pointed out that there are no lights
planned at this time except at the entrance. With respect to an
additional portable rest room, he suggested that there just be one unit
Page No. 19
January 21, 2003
and that it be left where it is or placed half way between the pier and
the tennis court.
Mr. Kullander responded that some cities light the parks but he does
not anticipate making that recommendation. The skateboard park
would be open during normal park hours.
Councilmember Krebsbach was concerned about noise traveling
across the lake and asked if people around the lake had been notified.
Mr. Kullander responded that he notified everyone within an 850
foot radius of the site, and that the city newsletter also informed the
community about the potential for a skate park at Rogers Lake.
Mayor Huber asked for audience comments.
Mr. Tim Meyers, 2334 Swan Drive, submitted information on
elements for the park. He stated that there is no way bolts will come
out of one of the manufacturer's products because all of the bolts are
counter sunk. He reviewed a plan that he had prepared for a
potential park. With respect to supervision, he stated that young
children who would skate there would have parents or an older
sibling along. West St. Paul does not have any problems with its
park. He stated that users should take responsibility to police the
facility themselves and to take care of the trash pick up, etc, in return
for the city letting them have a skate park. He stated that if any of
the users see anyone doing vandalism, they will report it. Many of
the users will have cell phones, so there is no need for a pay phone.
He felt that the city should go with Dave Shine's group for
equipment because he builds skate parks. True Ride is not as safe,
and metal elements cause skin burns, etc.
Mr. Kullander stated that the city would find two or three vendors
and look at design kits, and invite the users to come in and give staff
their input on layout.
Mr. Mike Johnson, 2300 So. Lexington, agreed about park clean up.
He stated that if the city is going to take the time and money to build
it, it is the responsibility of the users to keep it clean and police it.
He agreed that True Ride is not as safe and needs more maintenance,
and recommended Custom Skate equipment.
Mr. Matt Engelhart, 1011 Douglas Road, agreed, stating that Custom
Skate equipment is great. He stated that he skates weekly at various
skate parks.
Page No. 20
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that one question she has is
whether this is the scale of park the users who spoke go to and how
long people are interested in tier one parks. She wanted to be sure
that if it is built, it is of the scale and interest to a skate boarder for
several years. She also asked what age groups would be interested in
the park.
Mr. Engelhart responded that everything is fun to skate on. Bigger
tricks can be done on smaller equipment. He stated that children
from first grade on skateboard, but mostly it would be from fifth
grade and sixth grade through 18 or 19 or older skate.
Mr. Bob Engelhart, 1011 Douglas Road, stated that he thinks it is a
nice gesture for the kids who have really gotten involved in starting
this issue. He further stated that there may be future interest in
expanding the park through fund raising efforts.
Mr. Scott Miller, 1021 Wagon Wheel, stated his home is the closest
one to the park and he is in favor of the skateboard park. He has teen
aged sons who love the sport. Also, kids ride their skate boards in
commercial areas and skate on curbs and stairs, and having a park
will eliminate the damage they do in the areas they now use but
should not use.
Councilmember Duggan moved to accept the recommendation of the
Parks and Recreation Commission to construct a skateboard park at
the Rogers Lake Park tennis courts for a cost of up to $25,000, to be
financed by the Special Park Fund.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Mayor Huber stated that staff should develop a design that the users
will be happy with and be sure the facility is appropriate for them,
making sure to get input from them.
Councilmember Vitelli asked Mr. Kullander to ask for input from the
users on the right product and design but to also inform them on the
city's bidding process.
Councilmember Krebsbach was concerned over Councilmember
Vitelli's estimate of $5,500 in annual maintenance. She stated that
the Parks and Recreation Commission has made a recommendation
about construction but there was no information on the additional
cost of maintenance and supervision if it is needed.
Page No. 21
January 21, 2003
Mayor Huber responded that he is not sure supervision will be
needed. He pointed out that there is no supervision for hockey and
that is at least as dangerous.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that if the motion is passed, Council
should add that the public works annual budget should be increased
by $5,500 per year.
Administrator Lindberg suggested taking Parks Project Manager
Kullander's recommendation to overspend the budget this year. At
the end of the year, staff would have a better idea of the cost, and can
include it in the 2004 budget.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that there will be some kind of
staff cost and there will be a net affect. She asked where the
resources for that will be.
Administrator Lindberg responded that there is a contingency line
item available where over expenditures could be charged, and next
year there would be better information on costs and funding.
Mayor Huber stated that the issue is allocation of resources unless
someone is hired for maintenance. It may be that the city will spend
more time on maintenance on this facility and less on some other
facility at the discretion of staff. He suggested that perhaps the
motion should be to order plans and specifications and bring the bids
back to Council.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he would like to know what public
works is not going to do if they need to check the skateboard park
every day.
Mayor Huber responded that they go to the park every day now.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she would like input from the
recreation programmer.
Administrator Lindberg stated that when the bids are received, they
will be brought to Council. At that time, there can be further
discussion about whether public works needs to cut things our or
whether they can check the park and do necessary maintenance in
their normal work routine.
VOTE ON MOTION:
Ayes: 3
��� Nays: 2 Krebsbach, Vitelli
Page No. 22
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he did not support the motion
because maintenance costs have not been recognized.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she voted against the motion
because Council does not know the maintenance costs.
TOWN CENTER UPDATE AND Mr. Ross Feffercorn was present to update Council on Town
SIGNAGE Center and to request approval of temporary signage. He distributed
information on the temporary signage that would be located at the
corner of Dodd and T.H. 110. The sign would be six by eight feet,
and possibly will have color. He has not looked at lighting sources
for it yet. He stated that the sign will recognize the city and all of the
organizations that gave their cooperation and assistance to the
development.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
Councilmember Duggan stated that there will likely be major
changes in the Metropolitan Council and it may be presumptions to
recognize the Metropolitan Council on the sign, especially given the
state's funding problems.
Mr. Feffercorn responded that substantial funding has been set aside
by the Metropolitan Council, and all of the staff members who
worked on Town Center funding are still there. He felt that
recognizing the Metropolitan Council is important for future
relationships.
Administrator Lindberg informed Council that she has been assured
that the Metropolitan Council is in receipt of the city's funding and it
will be held for the city. The city is not in danger of losing the
$874,000.
Councilmember Vitelli moved to authorize the installation of the
temporary signage as proposed.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Mr. Feffercorn informed Council that he has held three residential
focus groups and the next one will be held on January 23. Generally,
attendance at the focus group meetings is a planned attendance of
those who have called in advance. He stated that he shows boards
and distributes brochures at the meetings and discusses matters
relating to customer preference, price points and the relationship of
commercial to residential. The feedback has been very positive. He
informed Council that he has a signed letter of intent from a new
Page No. 23
January 21, 2003
bank. He showed elevations for the condominiums and townhouses,
and discussed desired commercial uses.
Responding to a question from Councilmember Duggan, Mr.
Feffercorn stated that the focus group meetings are open to the
public, with reservations necessary, and that Council members are
welcome to attend a meeting.
POLICE CHIEF RECRUITMENT Administrator Lindberg reviewed her memo regarding the proposed
process for selecting a police chief.
After discussion, it was the consensus that copies of each of the
applications be submitted to all of the Council members for initial
scoring to determine which candidates meet the minimum
requirements.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that Council may wish to have a
different evaluation sheet for the second round, but that Council as a
group must decide on the four primary characteristics that are
needed.
Mayor Huber stated that he feels that the first round would be to, look
at all of the applications and reduce the candidate field to no more
than 15. He stated that he would prefer to get to a group of ten to
twelve. The second round would be for responses to written
questions, after which Council would meet as a group to decide
which of the candidates, perhaps five, to interview, and that there
would only be one round of interviews.
Administrator Lindberg stated that the first round serves two
purposes. The scoring process will rank all 40 candidates, but it will
also flush out those who do not meet the minimum qualifications.
Once that is done, Council can look at the top fifteen scores and
decide how many to interview. She stated that there is no need for
Council and the staff committee to meet as a group if everyone
scores all of the applications. Staff will compile the Council and
committee's responses and put together a list of the top ten to twelve
candidates.
Councilmember Vitelli suggested a number of written questions that
the second round candidates should be asked.
Mayor Huber stated that any Council members who have questions
they would like asked, should submit the questions to the city
Page No. 24
January 21, 2003
administrator. Perhaps some of the questions could be asked during
the interview process.
Councilmember Vitelli recommended that there should also be an
interview by a police department committee, consisting of Acting
Chief Anderson and two of the police officers. The candidates
would come for the staff interview first. He felt it would be valuable
to have the police ask questions that they feel are important and get
their input.
Mayor Huber agreed, but stated that Administrator Lindberg and
Human Resources Coordinator Foster should be present for the
police department interview so that, from a human resources process
standpoint, everything handled appropriately. Councilmember
Vitelli agreed.
Councilmember Duggan asked if any of the candidates have asked
for a city budget. He also suggested that the Council interview
include a question on the candidate's goals for the department and
how long it would take to accomplish those goals, so that there is
some sense of how long the person would be with the city.
COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS Council acknowledged a memo from Administrator Lindberg
regarding commission appointments. \.
There was considerable discussion over the deadline for submitting
applications, and it was the consensus that only candidates who
submitted their applications by the January 15 published deadline
should be considered.
Mayor Huber announced the names of the new candidates who
applied by the deadline and the commissioners whose terms are
expiring and have expressed interest in reappointment.
It was the consensus to conduct interviews from 6:00 p.m. to 7:30
p.m. on February 4 and to interview new candidates but not the
commissioners whose terms are expiring.
Mayor Huber stated that he would like to see attendance records and
how many years the current commissioners have been on the
commissions.
COUNCIL COMMENTS Councihnember Vitelli announced the birth of his new grandchild.
Page No. 25
January 21, 2003
Councilmember Schneeman stated that there was a recent house fire
that would have been much worse except for a smoke detector.
Before the detector went off, flames were shooting out of the roof.
She commended the fire department for its efforts on the fire.
CLOSED SESSION Council adjourned to closed session for discussion on the proposed
2003 LELS labor contract and threatened litigation (Dr. Charles
Reich).
RECONVENE The meeting was reconvened at
LELS CONTRACT Councilmember Schneeman moved approval of the proposed labor
agreement between the city and LELS (police department) for
2003/04, along with authorization for its execution by the
appropriate city officials.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
ADJOURN There being no further business to come before Council,
Councilmember Vitelli moved that the meeting be adjourned.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
(i Nays:0
TIME OF ADJOURNMENT: 11:50 p.m.
Q,c d Q.c ti _-
Kafhleen M. Swanson
City Clerk