2004-06-15 City Council minutesPage No. 1
June 15, 2004
CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY
STATE OF MINNESOTA
Minutes of the Regular Meeting
Held Tuesday, June 15, 2004
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, the regular meeting of the City Council, City of Mendota
Heights, Minnesota was held at 7:30 o'clock p.m. at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights,
Minnesota.
CALL TO ORDER Mayor Huber called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The following
members were present: Mayor Huber, Councilmembers Duggan,
Krebsbach, Schneeman and Vitelli.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Council, the audience and staff recited the Pledge of Allegiance.
AGENDA ADOPTION Councihnember Duggan moved adoption of the revised agenda for
the meeting, further revised to move item 8c to 8a (sewer backup
claim).
Councihmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
_ Nays: 0
CONSENT CALENDAR Councihnember Krebsbach moved approval of the consent calendar
for the meeting, revised to move items 6e, Treasurer's Report, 6f,
Fire Department report, 6k, material submission policy, and 6n, List
of Claims, to the regular agenda, along with authorization for
execution of any necessary documents contained therein.
a. Acknowledgement of the approved May 11, 2004 Parks and
Recreation Commission minutes.
b. Acknowledgement of unapproved June 8, 2004 Parks and
Recreation Commission minutes.
c. Acknowledgement of the approved May 12, 2004 Airport
Relations Commission minutes.
d. Acknowledgement of the NDC4 meeting minutes and agenda.
e. Authorization for the issuance of a purchase order to Infratech
Infrastructure Technologies for sewer system repairs in the
Freeway Road Addition for its low bid of $11,800.
f. Authorization for execution of a Joint Powers Agreement
between the city and Dakota County for the Wetlands Health
Evaluation Program (WHEP).
Page No. 2
June 15, 2004
g. Adoption of Resolution No. 04 -33, "A RESOLUTION
APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLAT AND VARIANCE TO
CREATE ONE ADDITIONAL LOT AT 1850 ARVIN DRIVE."
h. Adoption of Resolution No. 04-34, "A RESOLUTION
APPROVING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND A
VARIANCE FOR AN 864 SQUARE FOOT DETACHED
GARAGE AT 1111 DODD ROAD."
i. Adoption of Resolution No. 04 -35, "A RESOLUTION
ESTABLISHING DUE DATES FOR MATERIALS
SUBMITTED TO THE CITY FOR PLACEMENT ON THE
CITY COUNCIL MEETING AGENDAS."
j. Adoption of Resolution No. 04-36, "A RESOLUTION
ADOPTING THE HIPAA POLICY AND APPOINTING A
PRIVACY OFFICIAL."
k. Approval of the list of Contractor Licenses.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
TREASURER'S REPORT Finance Officer Schabacker informed Council that Councilmember
Duggan had contacted her with a question about why there is a
difference between the funds available at the beginning of the year
versus May 31. The biggest difference is $2,100,000 in the money
market account. That account is used to fund day to day expenses,
and when the tax settlement is received in July, it will go back up
again.
Councilmember Duggan moved to acknowledge the Treasurer's
Report for May.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
FIRE DEPARTMENT REPORT Councilmember Duggan noted that the Fire Department has spent
233 meeting hours so far this year versus 190 at the same time last
year and 268 hours of clean up versus 181 last year. He commended
the department members for their work.
Councilmember Duggan moved to acknowledge the Fire Department
monthly report for May.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
Page No. 3
June 15, 2004
MATERIAL SUBMISSION Council acknowledged a memo and proposed resolution from
POLICY Assistant Hollister regarding a policy for submission of information
for Council agendas.
Administrator Danielson stated that the city has not had a policy in
the past and there has been confusion. Sometimes people submit at
the last minute and expect their item to be on the next agenda and
staff does not have time to respond. Staff has asked Council to adopt
a policy that sets a time by which items must be submitted. He read
the proposed policy for the audience.
Councilmember Schneeman stated that she is very grateful for
having the proposed policy. It gets very difficult for Council when
things are brought up at the last minute and hand -outs are put at the
Council table just prior to a meeting.
Attorney Schleck stated that he thinks the main thrust of this was to
provide Council with the time necessary to review items. It is not
fair to Council or the residents to ask Council to review very
complicated information within hours of a meeting.
Councilmember Viteili moved adoption of Resolution No. 04 -35, "A
RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING DUE DATES FOR MATERIALS
SUBMITTED TO THE CITY FOR PLACEMENT ON CITY
Council MEETING AGENDAS."
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
LIST OF CLAIMS Council acknowledged the List of Claims. Councilmember Duggan
asked if the Barr report expense is above or below budget and if the
lift station construction was close to budget.
City Engineer McDermott responded that the payment to Barr is a
partial payment. Neither the contract with Barr nor the lift station
construction has been completed yet.
Councilmember Duggan moved approval of the List of Claims dated
June 15, 2004 and totaling $128,560.19.
Councilmember Schneeman seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
PUBLIC COMMENTS Mr. Bob Kreuser, 693 Freeway Road, distributed a copy of several
questions regarding Town Center to Council in response to a recent
Page No. 4
June 15, 2004
newspaper article. He asked Council why the city doesn't start the
trails and park land and bill Mr. Fefercorn so that the neighborhood t
does not have to wait until 2006. He asked if the city will increase
the price of the land to the developer since the value of the land has
increased. He stated that there are generally no street lights in the
city, but there are several lights on Oak Street. Lights are supposed
to be within the Town Center development according to the plan. He
asked if the east side of Oak should be part of the Town Center
district.
Councilmember Duggan responded that Mr. Fefercorn indicated to
Council last meeting that those lights could be moved. That is city
easement, but private property. He stated that he believes there are
two or three light standards there that could be moved if the
neighbors would like.
Mayor Huber informed Mr. Kreuser that his list of questions will be
referred to staff for response.
NORTH URBAN REGIONAL Council acknowledged a memo from Parks Project Manager
TRAIL Kullander regarding a presentation by Dakota County staff on the
North Urban Regional Trail(NURT). Ms. Mary Jackson, Dakota
County Planner, and Mr. Tim Corby, consultant engineer and Mr.
Mike Fischer, planner, were present for the discussion.
Ms. Jackson stated that the is present to update Council on the status
of the HURT. Dakota County began preliminary engineering on
Phase 2, which will run along T.H. 110 between Dodd and Charlton.
They are doing detail work in preparation for construction and will
also be talking to home owners along the route. They would like
input from Council and from the homeowners. She distributed a
map that shows the full seven mile trail route. The plan for it was
adopted in 1996 after a multi -year process. The main goal was to
provide a safe regional trail running through four communities in
Dakota County. The other goal was to provide a link between two
major regional trails. Mendota Heights approved the NURT in 1996
as long as the trail did not flatten out in Valley Park and that it be
aligned between the frontage road and T.H. 110. The proposed trail
did meet the MnDOT trail design standards that were in use in 1995
and she believes it still meets those standards today.
Mr. Corby stated that his firm was retained to design the project. It
needs to be constructed by next summer if the county is to utilize the
funds that have been approved for it. He reviewed the trail
alignment from Dodd to Charlton Road and showed concepts for
Page No. 5
June 15, 2004
dealing with the area of the frontage road between Delaware and
Town Center. MnDOT has concerns about the original design — it
does meet the standards, but they are concerned about the safety
because it is only 14 feet from the road. They are also concerned
about hydrology. He has designed a hydrology system to connect to
the city storm sewer on Market Street. Option two would be to
construct the trail north of the frontage road. He plans to meet with
the residents on June 22 on the frontage road to get their comments
about the two concepts.
Councilmember Duggan asked if the reconstruction of the TH 110/
Delaware intersection has been taken into consideration in the design
and if Mr. Corby is saying that the trail would be fourteen feet from
the highway. He also asked about the depth of the bituminous that
will be applied.
Mr. Corby responded that the design does reflect upgrades to the
intersection. From the edges of the bituminous of the frontage road
and highway there is about 14 feet. He had originally thought about
putting in a chain link fence for safety, but MnDOT was concerned
about that. One option is to use a guardrail and another is no fence
or guardrail. The bituminous will be three inches thick with eight
inches of class five rock under it.
Councilmember Vitelli thought there should be a guardrail or fence.
His preference is a guardrail, which he believes would be safer.
Mr. Corby stated that was discussed with MnDOT. If a car were to
come off the highway, the guard rail could make the difference
between injury and death.
Mr. Fisher stated that MnDOT is quite concerned. The design meets
MnDOT guidelines, but it is not comfortable with it. Their biggest
concern is the issue of drainage. He has not received an official
letter from MnDOT yet, and the engineers must find a solution that
does not reduce the drainage capacity at all. The project was started
in 1995, and he has to rely on going through files for information on
it. He is very much understanding that there were criteria around
approval of the concept including locating the trail where the city
wants it. On June 22, at 7:00 p.m. the county representatives will
meet with the residents and want to talk about the pros and cons of
both options with them and then come back to Council.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that in 1996 it was very clear that
the neighbors did not want the trail on their side of the frontage road.
Page No. 6
June 15, 2004
That was an important piece of the consideration, and she hopes that
the drainage works. At some point it would be nice to see if T.H.
110 could be a boulevard between Dodd and Delaware. She is glad
to see that the county is moving ahead with curbing.
Councilmember Duggan asked if there are any areas in the metro
area where there is a guard rail between a trail and a freeway.
Ms. Jackson responded that there are very few examples where a
trail has been allowed so close, and she will take a look at the
examples MnDOT gives her. There is one example along Highway
101 in Minnetonka.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he thinks it is a great plan and he
supports it.
SEWER BACKUP CLAIM Council acknowledged a memo from Administrator Danielson
regarding a claim for sanitary sewer backup clean up from Ms. Jan
O'Farrell, 1263 Delaware Avenue.
Administrator Danielson stated that the home owner contracted with
a company to clean her sewer line and the contractor said that tree
roots were all the way into the city main. The city' utility leadperson
removed and recovered the roots but was not sure they were from the
main. Where there is any doubt whether the problem comes from
the city main or the private main, staff recommends paying
reasonable costs.
Councilmember Vitelli moved to approve the payment of $253.75 to
Ms. O'Farrell.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Ayes: 5
Nays: 0
HENRY SIBLEY HIGH Council acknowledged a memo from Assistant Hollister regarding
SCHOOL SIGN preliminary discussion on concept proposal for an electronic sign for
Henry Sibley High School Council also acknowledged an
associated report from the city planner, a letter from Mr. Rick
Fretschel and a petition supporting the concept.
Assistant Hollister stated that Mr. Fretschel is leading an effort to get
a digital display sign at the high school. The city's signage
ordinance as written would not allow a moving digital sign of the
type being requested. The city planner abstained from making a
recommendation. He sees it as a policy matter as to whether Council
Page No. 7
June 15, 2004
wants to allow this type of sign. If Council wishes to allow the type
of sign, he recommends: that it be a conditional use rather than a
permitted use so that Council can place conditions on approval; that
such signs be accessory uses for certain types of land uses; that they
be limited to specific zoning districts; and, that a separate set of area,
height and materials requirements be created for such signs.
Assistant Hollister informed the audience that this item is before
Council for preliminary discussion only, to see if Council is willing
to consider allowing digital moving signs. Even if Council gives a
favorable response tonight, Mr. Fretschel must understand that does
not commit Council to any future approval of a specific sign. The
applicant would need to apply for a zoning ordinance amendment
and a conditional use permit and any variances that the planner feels
are needed for the sign. Everyone needs to understand that this is
just preliminary discussion on whether Council is interested in the
concept of a digital display sign.
Mr. Fretschel, 459 Nature View Court, West. St. Paul, stated that he
is present to try to get some direction from Council. He understands
that a variance is needed and that he needs to get feedback before he
spends a great deal of time, energy and money pursuing the sign
approval. He stated that ISD 197 Superintendent Longtin and Ms.
} Mary McGrory- Usset, a member of the school board and chair of the
marketing /communications committee were also present for the
discussion along with a representative of the sign company. He
explained that his role in this started out as a parent. He drives by
Sibley every day, and the motivating factor comes when there are
various events at the school. He went to the school board and
explained what he and many other parents want to achieve. He
stated that he is not present to represent the school board but he is
representing students of the school district. The Henry Sibley sign is
a concrete pad that has the sign with letters on it. It cannot be read in
the winter because it is snow packed. If one is driving down
Delaware and there is a play going on, you would see hand -made,
home -made signs advertising the play or other event. He
understands that there is an ordinance against lighted, moving signs
in Mendota Heights. There are a number of schools that are doing
what he proposes. He would like to see some kind of a message
board so that when people pass by on Delaware and see lots of cars
parked in the lot, they would know what is going on. It will not only
for athletics, it will also advertise community events. There are
5,900 cars per day on Delaware, and he does not think there is an
effective way to alert people on Delaware to what is going on at the
school. He showed photos of digital display signs used by other
schools.
Page No. 8
June 15, 2004
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that the city does not have street C
lighting and very little signage, and that has protected T.H. 110 from
becoming a strip. That was not easy to do. She asked if it is possible
to have the sign timed so that the lighted part would be on from 8:00
a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
Mr. Fretschel responded that signs like this can be put on timers.
They can come on and go off by computerized time schedules.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that the sign should go off at that
time when everyone attending an event should have arrived. She
also stated that it would seem that having a restricted time for the
lighting would be help the people along Delaware. She was
concerned. that if Council approves this, businesses will be coming to
Council with similar requests.
Mr. Fretschel responded that he does not have a history to work with
(since there are no similar signs in Mendota Heights) to see what
times are better than others. His first thought was that it should be
on at 6:00 a.m. and turned off at 9:00 p.m.
Councilmember Krebsbach responded that the sign becomes part of
the community and the neighborhood. She likes prep sports and
would like to know what is going on, but to preserve the nature of
the community, a restriction on the hours would be a condition she
would need to have. It would also have to fit the character of the
city.
Mr. Fretschel responded that he needs to know Council's feelings on
the matter before he can solicit funding. The sign is not part of the
upcoming referendum. He plans to make it completely privately
funded through donations. He stated that the sign is not that big —
the overall height is a little over ten feet, and the lighted part is 2'3"
by eleven feet, but he does not yet know what the final sign would
look like.
Mayor Huber asked if the signs are limited to a particular color,
stating that the ones he has seen all seem to have red lettering.
Mr. Jerry Gordon, from AIM Electronics, showed Council
photographs of a four line sign. He stated that signs have changed
dramatically over the past ten to fifteen years. The signs are LED
and no longer have bulbs. His firm offers a red -orange or amber
sign, and he is recommending amber for this sign. The background
Page No. 9
June 15, 2004
is dark, and the light can be dimmed depending on the time of night.
Typically, the message center is controlled by a computer so it can be
timed and scheduled whenever they want. The other part of the sign,
which would say "Welcome to Henry Sibley High School, will be on
a photocell that can go on a timer. City events could be displayed on
the sign, and the time and temperature could also be displayed. The
advantage of having more than one line is that more of a message
can be displayed on the sign. He is proposing a 27 inch high by
eleven foot wide 2 line message area.
Councilmember Duggan stated that the city would not have control
of the messages, and under the First Amendment, Council could not
tell the school what messages they can and cannot display.
Mr. Gordon responded that the City of Lakeville shares the sign with
the high school and accesses the sign via modem.
Mr. Fretschel stated that the sign would be going on school property
and the school district would control what goes on the sign. He just
wants to get out messages to recognize events and accomplishments
and to recognize things going on in the community.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that this will probably not be the
last request Council receives for this type of sign, so Council must be
very careful.
Mr. Fretschel stated that Council has the ability to recognize the
importance of this to the community. He is not driven by profit and
that is what sets this request apart from others that may come. If the
conditional use were to say the city would grant it to all the high
schools in the city, that would be a win/win situation.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that her conditions would be that it
must have a black background with amber letters, that it be on from
either 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. or 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., that it be a
monument sign, not up on pillars, and that it be a stationary message.
Mr. Fretschel responded that he got a petition because he knows
there is community support. There are about 550 signatures on the
petition, and he got those signatures at events at the school. He also
has a letter of support from the Mayor of West St. Paul, which has
the largest percentage of students who attend District 197 schools.
Councilmember Vitelli asked if the school district has found the
newspapers to be ineffective in terms of communicating events. He
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June 15, 2004
stated that he does not know if there is any way to measure that. The
sign would only bring the marketing message to the 5,900 people
who drive on Delaware past the school, which is only a small part of
the population of the school district area.
Mayor Huber stated that one of the things Mr. Fretschel is trying to
encourage is to let people know what's going on at school, including
people who are coming there from time to time. Also, parents who
are dropping their children off for an event would be informed of
other events.
Ms. McGrory -Usset stated that there are over 1,200 events that take
place at Henry Sibley and on its grounds. Of those events, 75% are
not high school events. At least 40 organizations use those grounds
and they would be very happy to be able to communicate their
messages. The school district wants to support communicating
community events as well as school events. Many schools are using
digital signs, and she hopes Council supports it.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that it is an admirable request, but
Council must weigh the reasons why the applicants would want the
sign with on the other side of asking a city to change a policy that
was drafted many years ago with much wisdom. As a result, the city
does not have animated digital signs. This is a big decision for
Council. Once Council opens the door, how can they say no to a
similar request from a church. Then when there are six or eight
signs, the three high schools and the churches, next will be requests
from Town Center and Mendota Plaza and SuperAmerica. That is
the balance. In his opinion, there are 5,900 automobiles that drive
Delaware and he looks upon that small number of people who will
see the sign when considering the whole size of ISD 197 and the
surrounding communities. That is a small number of people to ask a
city to change its whole structure on signage. Council must give
serious thought to whether to open the door to these digital signs. It
is very clear in the ordinances that the fathers of this city, in their
wisdom, did not want these signs, and he will likely not support the
request.
District 197 Superintendent Longtin stated that if the group were to
go forward with this, they would like to work closely with the cities
and have a sign that would bring dignity and be aesthetically
appropriate and work within the parameters the city may set. They
would like to work with the Council and the other cities in the
district as well.
Page No. 11
June 15, 2004
Councilmember Schneeman was excused at 8:30 p.m.
In response to a request from Mayor Huber for a summary of the
options, Assistant Hollister stated that Mr. Fretschel and his group
hope for some preliminary idea of where Council stands on the issue
of a digital sign before they go forward. There has been a lot of
reference this evening to a variance, but this sign would need an
amendment to the ordinance. There is no such thing as a variance to
a use. The main thing they would be applying for is an amendment
to the ordinance, more specifically, an amendment to the R -1 zone.
The planner indicates in his memo that if Council is interested in this
at all, they should craft the language in such a way as to limit the
proliferation of these signs. Council could make the conditional use
for schools in the R zone. That would significantly limit the number
of signs in Mendota Heights. He believes Council could limit the
use to a conditional use for high schools in R zones.
Attorney Schleck stated that what Council needs to decide is if, as a
city in terms of signage, the Council is at all interested in this type of
sign. If so, direction should be given to staff to prepare a proposal
that gives the city the maximum flexibility on when these might be
appropriate and when they might not. Fundamentally, what the
Council needs to decide is if there is any interest at all in a change in
the ordinance to allow digital display signs in the city, and if there is,
let staff come back with a proposal on how Council might be able to
use good sense in the future to look at these overall as opposed to
any specific use.
Mayor Huber stated that there is a possibility that the proposer might
look at this and see some Council members might support it and
some might not, so there will be a certain risk to the proposer if he
goes forward. Council is talking about concept, and there is no
guarantee to the proposer that even though Council may give him
some positive feedback, they are not bound to approving anything.
The monument style sign, if it could be crafted with the right way,
might possibly be palatable to him. He does not want any big,
booming sign. There may be a design to a sign that has a digital
element to it, that is part of a monument sign, that he may be able to
look favorably on given conditions on times, etc., if Council puts the
right constraints on it.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he is leaning towards
Councilmember Vitelli's position on this. He has lived in the city
for 27 years and likes the quietness and that there are no flashing
signs and no billboards. That is what makes a city like Mendota
Page No. 12
June 15, 2004
Heights a city like Mendota Heights. To keep that character, Council
sometimes has to put its foot down and it is an unwelcome decision
to those who think they might really like the sign. It is a personal
preference and it also happens to be part of the ordinance as well.
He spoke to Mr. Fretschel about his petition and had some questions
about two statements in the petition that he challenges. One of them
is the statement that "many residents living in Mendota Heights and
Independent School District 197 believe the community would
benefit from having an electronic sign on the grounds of Henry
Sibley High School." It does not specify the benefit, so he does not
know what they believe the benefit is and to what degree their belief
is. The second statement he questions is "we believe there is
currently no effective method to communicate these events on the
high school grounds." He asked what the statement was based on.
Was there an anticipated attendance and the attendance to the events
fell from that and they are trying to boost attendance at the events?
For any sign to be effective, it must catch people's attention. People
have seven to nine seconds to read signs when they pass by. In their
busy worlds, with cell phones, etc., he would be reluctant to add
another distraction on the city's roads to catch people's eye as they
are passing by. He likes the city the way it is and would hate to see
signs on I -494 in the future and major entities and smaller companies
coming in sign and asking for a digital sign to help their business. j
There are newspapers to advertise events at the school and that is a l _
public relations aspect of a school community and local newspapers
working together, and he does see those articles in the newspapers.
He looks at the greater good, which is the image of the city as he
knows it and he wants to preserve that image as much as he possibly
can. He would not lean towards approving an ordinance amendment
unless someone told him that there were some dire straits facing the
school district, such as losing students.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that the reason she wants to go to
particulars is that she does not want to see this move into the larger
arena of permission of signs without the constraints she stated.
Those include a dark background with amber lighting for the
message, a monument sign, a conditional use for high schools only,
and restrictions on the time the sign would be on, including that it
not be lit in the evening. She is also concerned about the
proliferation of this type of signs. Another criteria should be that it
be for used for a public purpose and that the public should be aware
of the events because they can come to the events.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he is a graduate of Henry Sibley
and is very proud of it. It is tempting in this case to support the
Page No. 13
June 15, 2004
school district in something they feel they want to do, but he now
represents about 11,000 citizens of Mendota Heights. Prior Councils
and Mayors have set standards and it is very clear in the ordinances
that the city does not have any of these signs. Council would have to
represent what it believes is a major change in the city policy on
signage to help publicize to 5,900 people who pass back and forth on
Delaware. He cannot see the balance. The balance is to continue
with the existing ordinances of the city. Council does not change
ordinances often, and this is a big deal. He cannot support
Councilmember Krebsbach's position to only allow high schools to
do this. That would not be fair to churches. They have activities to
advertise and they could also argue that they could advertise public
events. He does not see being able to support the request at all.
Mayor Huber suggested that Mr. Fretschel may wish to speak to
Councilmember Schneeman. He stated that he does not know what
other guidance Council could give.
Assistant Hollister noted that there appears to be a 2/2 split. Mr.
Fretschel is welcome to schedule another appointment with the him
and the city planner and review the meeting minutes and they will
give him whatever advice they can. If Mr. Fretschel makes a formal
application, both the planner and the Planning Commission will need
to review a specific sign. Council has the final authority.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that her support is only for what
she stated.
Responding to Councilmember Duggan's comments, Mr. Fretschel
stated that he cannot measure the integrity of a petition but he can
measure the intent of the petition. People knew what the petition
was. Changing the language of the petition will not change the
outcome or the attitude. Council has the power to decide where
these signs go. He is simply present to find out where to go from
here. He cannot possibly move forward with this endeavor without
some kind of direction from the Council that they understand the
impact of this on the community of 197.
Mayor Huber stated that Mr. Fretschel has received a lot of feed
back. Even for those Council members who think this may be
palatable there are certain conditions and style and it may be at a
price point that may be a challenge to his group.
Councilmember Duggan stated that if he is a businessman and
understands what it takes to get a message across to people as
Page No. 14
June 15, 2004
economically and effectively as possible. He would be curious to
know the number of schools in the metro area and the number of
metro schools that have added electronic signs in the last few years.
That would help him make a decision. He knows kids in school like
being involved by making hand made signs. That gives them a
connection to school activities. Should the matter come back to
Council, he would support a monument sign. He would not support
a sign lit after 8:00 to 8:30 at night. He would not like the time and
temperature or the school name on after that time.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that one thing has puzzled him
throughout the discussion. If Mr. Fretschel is after traffic, why isn't
the sign being put on TH 110?
Mr. Fretschel responded that he has been a fireman and paramedic
for 26 years. He knows the speeds on Highway 110 and he knows
the intersection. There have been two fatalities at Delaware and TH
110. The reason he did not suggest putting the sign at TH 110 is
because of the speed of the traffic. He would not support that.
Councilmember Krebsbach noted that Henry Sibley High School is
having a fifty year reunion on Friday and Saturday.
RECESS Mayor Huber called for a recess at 9:20 p.m. The meeting was
reconvened at 9:28 p.m.
CASE NO. 02 -11: FEFERCORN Council acknowledged additional information from Mr. Ross
Fefercorn, regarding continued discussion on the Final Development
Plan for the Town Center PUD for Buildings "D ", `B" and "F ". Mr.
Fefercorn was present for the discussion.
Assistant Hollister stated that Mr. Fefercorn was present to discuss
Buildings D, E and F at the last meeting. Since that meeting, he has
adjusted the roof lines. The discussion tonight is for the adoption of
a resolution that would approve the final development plan for those
buildings. He then read four conditions recommended by the city
planner.
Mr. Fefercorn stated that he took seriously a recent newspaper article
about Town Center. After he last meeting he began working with his
architects to try to soften the building a bit. He feels the new plan
meets the sky better and connects with the Dakota County senior
housing building much better. ESC Architects designed the office,
retail and housing elements and also designed the senior building.
He also brought along the current revision of landscape plan,
Page No. 15
June 15, 2004
prepared by Damon Farber, for early Council review of how the
market space could be designed.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she also would like to see
what else Mr. Fefercorn is also planning to do. Her interest is that
the building at the end of the plaza will have a roof line that will look
like a complete building from all sides. She likes the way City Hall
and the Lilydale City Hall look, as examples.
Mr. Fefercorn compared the current drawing to the drawing that was
presented at the last meeting.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that the new plan is a tremendous
improvement and it is excellent. He is very pleased with Mr.
Fefercorn's quick turnaround on it.
Councilmember Duggan stated that he agrees. He would also like to
negate the negative comments in the newspaper. Council is working
with the developer to come up with what is best for the city, and this
is a marvelous response to Council's comments at the last meeting.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she asked the City
Administrator to share the budget report because there have been
comments about the budget and the use of TIF. She stated that she
has reviewed the new design and the only question she has is what
the roof line is made of.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that the current drawing indicates a
standing seam metal roof. He is looking at several options and wants
to be sure it works with the other buildings.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she would like it to look like
shingles or shakes. She was concerned about the area around the
parking lot and noted that the other plans showed more landscaping
than what Mr. Fefercorn is currently showing.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that there are metal roofs available that
emulate shakes or shingles. He showed Council the oldest plan he
has, stating that it shows a series of ornamental trees lining the
parking lot and that would be appropriate. One of his big interests is
to create a transition from the parking area to the residential on Oak
Street. It would be very much in his interest to screen the parking lot
with year round vegetation. Increasing the shrub level landscaping
to screen the parking lot is one of the conditions of the resolution.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that once it moves off the narrow
Page No. 16
June 15, 2004
point, she would like trees in the landscaping plan. She asked that
language be added to the resolution.
Councilmember Duggan suggested that there would be a major sight
visibility problem in that area of the corner if there were thick shrubs
there.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that he plans to install overstory conifers
and deciduous trees to shield the residential from the commercial.
Councilmember Duggan asked what impact it would have on
parking if the area adjacent to Building F were used for outdoor
dining.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that he is assuming the area around the end
of the building would be a very popular seating area for having
coffee, etc. There will be ornamental trees in grates in that area.
There will also be seasonally planted areas along the sidewalks.
Councilmember Vitelli asked Mr. Fefercorn to have the pros and
cons when he comes back to talk about roofmg. Council wants to
make sure it looks good in ten years.
Responding to a question from Councilmember Krebsbach regarding \
the materials on the bottom of the building, Mr. Fefercom stated that
he directed the architects to consider a couple of different materials
along the sidewalk and on the column bases and the area underneath
store fronts The material used on City Hall is very nice, and it is a
colored concrete that is cast to look like stone. He would like to be
able to use that and he may be able to use some stone. There are
several ins and outs with different material in the buildings and
considerable relief in the design. He took off the signage on the
second story because he wants to look carefully at it with his sign
designer. He wants to have the ability for a local dentist, realtor,
etc., to have some signage. He wants to study that very carefully.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that she does not see that she
would approve signage on the top. She is fine with the signage that
was presented. It is important for the signage to be at the street level,
and this drawing represents that. There will be monument signs as
people come in to say what is in the building.
Mayor Huber stated that the monument sign might say that a specific
doctor is in the building, but how would someone know where his
office is.
Page No. 17
June 15, 2004
Mr. Fefercorn responded that he wants to study that with sign
consultants. He would like them to study ways that the buildings can
communicate to the general public in a sophisticated and quiet way
what they need to communicate. He is very open minded and will let
the sign consultants make a recommendation.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he is open to signage on the
second level. A commercially designed sign that says dentist would
be fine.
Mr. Fefercorn showed Council a composite of signage at Arbor
Lakes. They use nine foot high perpendicular blades at the
pedestrian level for the individual stores.
Mayor Huber asked if staff is recommending that the fourth
condition regarding the traffic flow in a country clockwise
circulation pattern around Market Square be deleted.
Engineer McDermott responded that it seems the way it is laid out
now could become confusing in the future. It is signed now with a
do not enter at the east entrance, but it appears that it could become
confusing and cause problems and accidents with people trying to
turn into the eastern most street.
Mr. Fefercorn stated that Market Street is a two way street, and this
is a topic that was discussed with the city's traffic consultant. The
idea is that much traffic will come from westbound Market Street,
and as traffic turns into the one way, it is clockwise around Market
Square and if they look for parking they would go clockwise to find
a parking spot. They would,not be crossing traffic four times like
they would if the circulation were counter clockwise. There are
some uses, like Caribou Coffee, where if people come in from T.H.
110 they would be braking and turning into Caribou. He would
rather have them drive through and turn in and find parking and walk
across to Caribou, which seems safer.
It was the consensus that a clockwise pattern would work better.
Police Chief Aschenbrener stated that he went out to she site last fall
before the signs went up and it was confusing at first without having
the buildings there. When one steps back and looks at it, it makes
sense. When the area builds up, clockwise will make sense.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he is very supportive now and
ready to move the resolution. He stated that it says in the resolution
Page No. 18
June 15, 2004
that the Town Center redevelopment project as proposed in Planning
Case 02 -11, and asked what is on the record for the basis of what
Council is approving.
Assistant Hollister responded that Case 02 -11 refers to the original
PUD application for Town Center as a whole. What PUD
applications involve are preliminary and final development plan
approvals. Council would be approving the final development plan
for the PUD. Unless Council specifies otherwise, what Council is
approving are the drawings submitted tonight for Buildings D, E and
F and also the site plan.
Councilmember Krebsbach stated that the clock tower effect is not
repeated on each of the plans. She wants to be clear that if Council
approves D and E, that Building C has a full roof and that there will
be a clock tower effect similar to what is on the large building.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that the tower Councilmember Krebsbach
is referring to will be larger and will be the dominant tower.
Attorney Schleck suggested that the resolution be revised to add to
the first clause "and the drawings of the buildings from ESG dated
June 15, 2004," so Council is only incorporating the drawings of the
buildings.
Administrator Danielson gave Council a financial update. The city
keeps a separate Town Center budget of expenses and revenues.
There have been some questions on what may have been expended
by the city. None of the expenses have been tax dollars. Before the
tax increment district sunsetted, the city used $118,000 of TIF for
early planning. The city received a Metropolitan Council planning
grant for $150,000, and received $92,590 from the Dakota County
CDS when it purchased the land for the senior housing facility.
MSA contributed $521,972 for funding its share of the frontage road
(Market Street). The city was successful in getting special
legislation to utilize $4.5 million in TIF funds from the city's
sunsetted TIF district. The city used $2.9 million of the TIF for land
acquisition, and used TIF funding for construction costs, demolition,
grading and underground electrical. TIF funding was also used for
sanitary sewer, storm sewer, water, street and all public
improvements that served the area. The city was reimbursed for
SAC on the demolished buildings. Park dedication fees will be
required for the buildings that will be constructed at the rate of
$1,500 for each of the 75 residential units. In 2002, the city received
an $873,000 Metropolitan Council grant to assist with the
Page No. 19
June 15, 2004
underground parking and another $300,000 in 2003 for assisting with
the structured parking. As part of the development contract, the city
agreed with the developer to assist him with constructing structured
parking, using proceeds from the sale of the land. It will cost about
$2.2 million for the parking for Buildings A, B, C and F.
Councilmember Krebsbach asked with the value of Building F will
be.
Mr. Fefercorn responded that the value will probably be around $8.5
million. The valuation is subject to real estate appraisal, and that has
not been done yet because he has not yet had approval for the
building. It will cost about $7 million to build.
Responding to a question from Councilmember Krebsbach, Attorney
Schleck stated that the purchase price of the land was agreed to in
the developer's agreement two years ago, and that was $5.00 a
square foot for the commercial parcels. Most of that is going back
into the parking structure. It is very important for the public to
understand that one of the things negotiated as part of the
developer's agreement was that the city would review the profit
made on the project and if the profit significantly exceeds what was
estimated, the city will be able to recoup all of the money that it put
into the project, based on the excess profit made.
Mr. Fefercorn stated that city's development consultant in the project
suggested to the city that there be a maximum profit to the developer
on the housing development. To the extent that the profit exceeds
that, he shares the profit 50150 with the city. He has to have third
party accounting of his books on a physical year and the city is able
to recover any excess profit beyond what is considered a reasonable
profit.
Councilmember Vitelli stated that, as background, in 2000 the
Council asked him, based on his experience in project management
with Honeywell, to review the information with staff. He listed a
number of significant projects he managed for Honeywell. He stated
that he is very comfortable with the project, both with the finances
and the plan. The recent newspaper article stated that people
indicated a completion date of 2004. In 2000 when the PUD was
approved, he never heard the year 2004 for completion. Perhaps in
1998 or 1999, 2004 was the date. When he became involved in this
project in mid -2000, the completion date was 2005. This continues
to be run very effectively by Mr. Fefercorn and the city's staff. He is
very impressed with how well managed the project is financially
Ayes: 4
Nays: 0
Page No. 20
June 15, 2004
because the only real numbers that changed very much since 2000
was that when the land was sold, new entries were made for actual.
Also, some changes were made when the Metropolitan Council
grants were approved. This is financially a well run project and
schedule wise, it is a well run project.
Attorney Schleck suggested that some revisions be made to the
proposed approving resolution. With respect to in Item 2, the city is
waiting for additional information from the surveyor regarding the
easement for Outlot E and the parking lot. He suggested a change to
the resolution to state that the applicant shall be required to resolve
the conflict between the parking lot and Outlot E in a manner
acceptable to the city, and let staff and the developer work on that.
There would be a great deal time and expense for the developer and
the city to amend the plat and there is a quicker and easier way to do
it. Council should also consider adding a couple of points. One is
that the city reserves the right to approve or designate the final sign
for the second story of the building. The last would be that Building
C have a roof line that is similar to the buildings proposed tonight
and that there be a clock tower feature to the west of it.
Councilmember Vitelli moved to approve the final development Plan
for a Planned Unit Development for Buildings "D ", `B" and "F" of
the Town Center Redevelopment Project and direct staff to prepare a
revised resolution to delete Item 4 and incorporate the revisions as
recommended by the City Attorney.
Councilmember Duggan seconded the motion.
Mr. Fefercorn informed Council that Council and the staff are
invited to attend an open house at the Gateway Bank on June 30 at
10:00 a.m.
WORKSHOP Council acknowledged a memo from Administrator Danielson
recommending that Council adjourn the meeting to a workshop for
discussion of the City Administrator's 6 -month review.
COUNCIL, COMMENTS Councilmember Krebsbach announced that St. Peter's Church is
holding its carnival this weekend. She also stated that she would like
to ask staff if there is some way to acknowledge all of the parents
who have coached at the MHAA, dating back to the beginning of the
city.
Page No. 21
June 15, 2004
Councilmember Vitelli stated that he will be a guest speaker at
former City Administrator's class this week, and that he and Mrs.
Vitelli will celebrate their 40th anniversary on Sunday.
ADJOURN There being no further business to come before Council,
Councilmember Duggan moved that the meeting be adjourned to
workshop.
Councilmember Vitelli seconded the motion.
Ayes: 4
Nays: 0
TIME OF ADJOURNMENT: 10:25 p.m.
thleen M. Swanson
City Clerk