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1996-06-11 Parks and Rec Comm Minutes CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, M NNESOTA PARKS AND RECREATI '�OMMISSION M JUNE 11 — The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held on Tuesday, June 11, 1996, in the Council Chambers at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 6:35 PM. The following members were present: Libra,Kleinglass, Spicer, and Damberg. Liberacki was excused from the meeting. (Norton and Linnell arrived late.) Also present were City Administrator Kevin Batchelder, Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander, Recreation Programmer Chris Esser, and Administrative Intern Patrick C. Hollister. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Damberg moved to approve the May 14, 1996 Minutes. Commissioner Libra seconded the motion. AYES: 4 NAYS: 0 • SUMMER UNDER THE SUN (Both Ms. Norton and Mr. Linnell arrived at this point.) Ms. Jennifer Ready/of ISD 197 Community Education gave a brief overview of the Summer Under thi Sun program. Ms.'Ready explained that West St. Paul and Mendota Heights have traditionally contributed to the program in equal amounts, although fewer Mendota Heights children have been involved in the program than West St. Paul children. Ms. Ready explained that part of this discrepancy may arise from the fact that the program has been based at Grass Junior High in West Saint Paul. Ms. Ready added that the program would move to the new Friendly Hills middle school by 1998. Mr. Spicer asked if anyone would like to make a motion that the Commission recommend continued funding of this program on a year-to-year basis at a level commensurate with the level of involvement of Mendota Heights children for 1997 and beyond, with an annual ceiling of$3,000. Ms. Norton offered this motion. Ms. Damberg seconded this motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 ABSTENTIONS: 1 (Linnell) 1 UMPIRE REIMBURSEMENT Mr. Esser explained that the Parks and Recreation Commission had instructed Staff to return to the Commission with an equitable"pro-rated"plan to reimburse all leagues for the frequent absence of umpires last year. W. Esser presented the reimbursement system he had devised and asked the Commission if it was acceptable. Ms. Norton moved to recommend that the Council adopt the reimbursement system devised by Mr. Esser. Mr. Linnell seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 REGIONAL YOUTH BASEBALL TOURNAMENT Mr. Esser explained that Mendakota Park had been selected by the AAU to be a site for the Regional Youth Baseball Tournament. Mr. Esser also pointed out that the AAU intends to charge an admission fee for spectators at the tournament, and thus he wished to know the Commission's thoughts on what the fee structure for use of the fields should be for this tournament. Mr. Spicer said that the City had three options: • 1. Charge the standard per-game maintenance fee for City Staff to maintain the fields 2. Require that the Tournament orga'dzers maintain the fields themselves 3. Offer free maintenance by the City of the fields during the tournament. Mr. Kullander advised the Commission that in addition to the need to groom the fields, there would also be a need to pick up trash and clean the sanitary facilities on a nightly basis during the three-day tournament. Mr. Spicer asked for a motion to charge the AAU$75/day for all three days to reimburse the City for two hours per day of general clean-up, and to offer the AAU the choice of either paying the City$25/game to maintain the fields, or maintain the fields themselves. (The$75/day clean-up fee would be waived if the AAU opted to pay for City Staff to maintain the fields.) Ms. Norton offered the above motion. Ms. Damberg seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 2 . NORTHERN STATES POWER-ROGERS LAKE SUBSTATION Pat Cline of NSP introduced his colleagues Dave Callahan, Sheldon Silverman, and Joe Mansur. Mr. Cline said that he would allow Mr. Callahan to explain NSP's intentions and then entertain any questions the Commission may have. Mr. Callahan explained that NSP does not intend to change the footprint or size of the NSP substation. Mr. Callahan explained that there are currently 2 hills within the NSP fence, and that NSP intends to excavate one hill and install sheet piling in its place. Mr. Callahan also said that NSP intends to install 3 additional power poles for the rerouting of a power line. Mr. Callahan said that NSP is asking the City for temporary easements for working space within the park to make these changes. Mr. Callahan elaborated that NSP may need the temporary easement for vehicle turning and maintenance of the substation during this project. Mr. Callahan explained that NSP had been directed to come before the Parks and Recreation Commission by the Planing Commission to present their landscape plan. Mr. Callahan showed the Commission two photos of the substation as one looks south: 1. A composite of three photographs showing the current view of the substation. 2. A computer-enhanced simulation of the same view with the new berming, trees, and poles. Mr. Callahan also showed the Commission a photo of the two types of poles NSP could install. Mr. Callahan explained that the preferred pole is 75 feet high and stacks the wires vertically, which results in a cleaner, less busy appearance than the 55 foot pole which uses a horizontal T s4ort to hang the wires. Mr. Callahan then referred the Commission to their packets, wherein they had been given maps of the proposed berming and landscaping. Mr. Callahan explained that although the map showed a culvert running through a berm, this could be eliminated by making some minor alterations. Mr. Callahan said that the NSP property line ran just north of the substation fence. Mr. Callahan added that NSP intended to remove about 760 cubic yards of dirt from the substation which would be used to enlarge the two existing berms. Mr. Linnell had several concerns to share with NSP. Mr. Linnell commented that two of the new poles would be near the soccer field, and thus would increase the general impact of the substation on the park. Mr. Linnell also commented that he presumed the reason why NSP was choosing to use sheet piling inside the substation was the presence of a propane gas line. Mr. Linnell 3 remarked that the process of pounding in the sheet pile could be noisy for the neighbors. Mr. Linnell also expressed concern that someone might climb up the fence and fall off into the substation. Mr. Linnell commented that the main purpose of the berm would be to get the vegetation up higher. Mr. Linnell recommended expanding the berm to the east. Mr. Linnell also stated that he would like to see more trees, especially evergreens. Mr. Linnell said that he would like to see about 60 twelve-foot Black Hill Spruce Trees, punctuated by some deciduous trees and shrubs. Mr. Linnell asked if the color of the new poles would match the color of the existing poles. W. Callahan responded that it would. Mr. Linnell said that he would prefer the thinner poles, even though they are taller. Mr.Linnell also suggested that NSP fill in the hole immediately to the North of their proposed berm and create another berm there. Mr. Callahan responded that the importation of so much dirt would cost too much. Mr. Spicer asked NSP when they intended to start this project. Mr. Callahan replied that NSP would like to begin as soon as possible in order to be prepared for the 1997 peak demand season. Mr. Linnell reiterated that NSP should expand the berm at least half-way into the hole. W.Linnell speculated that it may be economical if the City had extra dirt. Mr. Linnell added that he placed more priority on plantings than on berms at any rate. . Mr. Callahan said that trees alone would eventually reach the same height as trees plus a berm,but that it woWd take longer. Mr. Callahan also stated that berms do indeed reduce noise. Mr. Callal emphasized that NSP wishes to"partner"with the City on the landscaping project. Ms.Norton asked what exactly NSP means by"partnering", and whether that meant NSP expected the City to undertake some of the cost of landscaping. Mr. Callahan replied that"partnering"merely meant that the City and NSP should work on a landscape plan together that would satisfy all interested parties. Mr. Callahan added that NSP asked the Planning Commission to separate the Conditional Use Permit issues from the Landscaping issues, and grant NSP the CUPs now subject to the fulfillment of a landscape agreement later. Mr. Kullander asked what would happen to the 4'-5' high pine trees along the north fence line during the sheet piling. Mr. Callahan said that he did not know the answer. 4 • Mr. Kullander said that the City would like to save those pine trees if they would be destroyed. Mr. Silverman explained that NSP would work from inside the substation to the greatest extent possible and not disturb these trees. Ms. Damberg asked NSP what size trees they intended to plant for their landscaping. Mr. Callahan replied that spruce trees in the 4'-6' range had the best survival rate and grew faster than larger trees. Mr. Callahan added that the Colorado Spruce can grow to be 45' high and that NSP did not want to have to prune such tall trees in the future if they conflicted with the power line. Mr. Batchelder observed that the Commission had raised two very important issues this evening: the potential disruption of vegetation at the northeast of the substation and the issue of noise from sheet piling. Mr. Callahan said that sheet piling would only occur during normal business hours. Mr. Silverman added that total excavation and sheet piling would take about 2-3 weeks. Mr. Silverman said that NSP did not yet have a contract for the sheet piling, and thus there was still an opportunity to restrict the sheet piling activity to, for example, 7:30am- 4:30 pm for four days/week Mr. Silverman added that however the hours were restricted,the sheet piling would still have to occur for at least 40 hours/week in order to get it done in a timely manner. Mr. Spicer asked about the fate of the northeast vegetation. Mr. Silverman said that NSP would not be cutting down trees, and instead would bring the dirt through the NSP site. Mr. Silverman added that the new berming may disrupt traffic on the existing bike trail when the dirt is being moved onto the berm areas. W. Spicer asked for a motion to recommend approval of NSP's plans, subject to the creation of a better landscape plan by a committee consisting of NSP, City St4 and Mr. Linnell. Mr. Linnell offered to make the above motion with an amendment that the landscape plan include restrictions on hours of operation for sheet piling. Mr. Libra offered to second the motion with another amendment that the committee include someone from the Neighborhood Association. (Ms. Blesener later that evening offered to be this person.) Mr. Cline said that NSP wishes to present this new landscape plan to the Planning Commission on the 25th of June. 5 Mr. Spicer instructed Mr. Cline to talk to Mr. Linnell. • Mr. Meinglass asked why, if NSP was in such a hurry, they didn't come to the City a month earlier. Mr. Callahan said that NSP is in compliance with the City's ordinances and has a budget constraint. Mr. Callahan said that Staff had told him that NSP is in compliance with the City's ordinances. Mr. Callahan offered to take a tour around the vicinity of the substation with anyone who is interested. Mr. Meinglass moved that the Commission recommend that Mr. Linnell and Mr. Kullander work with NSP on these issues. Ms. Norton seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 MENDAKOTA LIGHTS TASK FORCE Mike Black of the Mendakota Lights Task Force presented the Findings document to the Commission. Mr. Black explained that the Task Force had 4-5 meetings, and that there • was an obvious division of opinion within the Task Force on the merits of the lights. Mr. Black explained that the Findings document is intended to provide a common factual knowledge base for everyone discussft the lights issue. Mr. Black said that/earlier debates about the lights suffered from a lack of a common quantitative understanding of the current and projected levels of demand for ballfields. Mr. Black explained that in order to address this knowledge gap,Mr. Black and Mr. Friedman compiled the Findings document and submitted it to Mr. Batchelder,who made minor revisions to the document. Mr. Black continued that the Task Force had decided to present this document to the City Council at their first meeting in July, even though he personally would have preferred to refine the document and discuss it with the Task Force for another month. W. Black asked the Commission to make a recommendation to the Council for their July 2nd meeting. Mr. Black reiterated that the information in this document deserved more review, and that it was important that all participants in the lights debate had common, accurate information. Mr. Black stated that the School District reports that school enrollment will be flat for the next five years. Mr. Black suggested that the figures which the school district has compiled show that there will be no significant increase in the number of children in the foreseeable future, despite the fact that MHAA projects a growth in participation. 6 Mr. Black elaborated that the data shows an increase in MHAA participation between 1990 and 1995, but a slight decrease between 1995 and 1996. Thus,Mr. Black observed, this document gives"talking points"to both sides of the debate. Mr. Black said that MI-IAA was not clear on how many fields it was losing. Mr. Black continued that MHAA has lost fields in West Saint Paul and a middle school, but will gain fields with the new Friendly Hills Middle School in Mendota Heights. Mr. Black said that the new Friendly Hills Middle School will have one`whole"field and one field shared with soccer. Mr. Black also said that recent scheduling changes at Mendakota have allowed it to play 6 additional games per week, including each Sunday night. Mr. Black explained that Monday-Thursday at 6:00 or 6:30 was considered"prime time"for games. Mr. Black said that the benefit of lights would be a total of 16 youth games/week, whereas currently the youth are playing 6 games/week at Mendakota. Thus, said Mr. Black, lights would provide an increase of 10 games/week, or 100 games for one 10-week season. Mr. Black said that those who are opposed to the lights feel that there are other ways to achieve the same benefit that would be superior to installing lights at Mendakota Park. Mr. Black also pointed out that the last sentence in John Norton's memo pointed out that while a 75' field was sufficient for younger kids, older kids needed at least 90'. Mr. Spicer said that the City only had one 90' field. Mr. Black responded that the 90' field'ghortage would not be solved by lights. Mr. Black said that those who favor lights argue that lights cost less than new fields. But, Mr. Black countered, the City/already owns property which it could use for fields. W. Black also asked if perhaps four to six games a week could be played at the new Middle School. Mr. Black suggested that fields be built at Friendly Marsh Park or Highway 149 right-of- way which is not built upon and which the City could acquire. Mr. Black also suggested that two fields could be created in Friendly Marsh Park for less than the cost of lights at Mendakota. Mr. Black said that these two new fields could add 8 games/week, or 10 games/week with Sundays. Mr. Black repeated that those who are opposed to the lights feel that other ways would be better to achieve the same result. Mr. Black said that if lights were installed, kids could use the fields from 6:30-8:00 and adults could use the fields at 8:00 and 9:00. Mr. Black said that the lights would only be used until the end of July and would be out at 1 Opm. Mr. Black said that the lights would only be used for a ten-week period, and that new fields would not have the same restrictions. Mr. Black also suggested that the Army could do the grading for any new field construction. 7 Mr. Black reminded the Commission that Mr. Kullander had provided cost estimates for • both lights and fields at previous meetings. Mr. Spicer asked Mr. Kullander how much two fields at Friendly Marsh would cost. Mr. Kullander responded that they would cost $200,000 or less. Mr. Kullander said that the City could build two fields at Friendly Marsh now but that there were two considerations. 1. If the fields were built now and the MnDOT land was acquired later, the City would end up with a sub-optimal use of the area. 2. The neighborhood may complain about converting to an active use what was a passive park. Mr. Kleinglass said that he has attended two Task Force meetings, and that he was still unsure as to whether or not the current fields were being used adequately. Mr. Black responded that he could not demonstrate numerically that the existing fields were currently underused, but that testimony from residents and anecdotal evidence seemed to indicate that they were not. Mr. Black also expressed regrets that Mr.Norton was not present to explain the current field usage. S Mr. Kleinglass said that he had heard opponents of the lights say that the current fields were underused. W. Black said thatAhe underusage appeared to be especially acute on Fridays. i Mr. Kleinglass asked why this issue had to be"rushed". Mr.Batchelder explained that the Council wanted the issue to return to them at their first July meeting in order to have the lights available by next spring should they decide to install them. Mr. Kleinglass commented that it took St. Thomas a long time to get permission for their field lights. W. Batchelder said that the Council asked that a Task Force be formed in February, that this Task Force had met 4 or 5 times already and that the Task Force would meet one more time before the Council meeting on July 2. Mr. Kleinglass asked if there would be no recommendation from the Task Force. 8 • Mr. Black responded that there would be no recommendation, and that the purpose of the Task Force was to"provide the battlefield". Mr. Spicer recommended a 5-minute intermission to allow the Commission time to read the Findings document. Mr. Friedman stated that some of John Norton's figures were too high: • 555 >509 (Baseball) • 356>339 (T-Ball) • 350>342 (Girls',Softball) Mr. Friedman also objected to the way Mr.Norton calculated the"Annual Increase" in participation. Mr. Friedman said that taking the percentage increase over a five-year period and dividing it by five does not render the"Annual increase". Mr. Black reiterated that the Task Force had no recommendation Ms. Norton asked how much the lights would cost. Mr. Kullander responded about$225,000 maximum. Mr. Batchelder stated that the lights • would be designed by a professional firm on a competitive basis and the estimated range was$150,000 to $225,000. Mr. Spicer than called for a five-minute recess to provide the Commission time to read the findings document. u (Intermission) J� After the intermission, Mr. Spicer asked Jan Blesener if she would be interested in serving on the committee to design the landscaping for NSP. Ms. Blesener responded that yes, she would, since her house was among the closest to the NSP substation. Ms. Blesener said that the decibel reading at her house was at 50 dB, the same level as at the fence of the substation, and that the hum in her house sounded like"a broken florescent light". Mr. Spicer commented that NSP claims that the dB level would go from 49 to 47 after the project,which is a more significant drop than it sounds like since dB is a logarithmic scale. Mr. Spicer then asked for a motion on Mendakota Lights. Mr. Meinglass suggested tabling the discussion to the July Park and Recreation Commission meeting. 9 Mr. Black said that the Task Force will meet again, but that he did not expect the Findings document to change vary much. Mr. Black repeated that the purpose of the document was to provide information, not make a recommendation Mr. Black said that he thought that the Task Force had made good progress in that regard by putting this document together. Mr. Spicer said that the City faced three choices: 1. Light the fields for$200,000 for 160 additional games/season 2. Create two fields at Friendly Marsh for$200,000 for 60 additional games/season 3. Do nothing. Ms. Blesener said that the need for additional fields is debatable, and that there was no consensus on how to meet that need. Ms. Blesener said that lights are a bad idea, because they would go against the community's precedent of restricting lights of all kinds. Mr. Friedman said that the lights would provide 160 additional games per season, but only 2 hours of adult play. Mr. Batchelder said that the softball season actually ran from the first week in May to the second week in August. Mr. Spicer thanked Mr. Batchelder for that clarification,but said that the Commission was i deliberately taking a conservative estimate. Mr. Spicer again asked for a motion.-' Mr. Libra said thatAalthough the neighbors had legitimate concerns, he would like to make the same motion o� the lights that the Commission had passed at the February meeting. Mr. Spicer asked for a second to that motion. There was none. Mr. Spicer asked for a different motion. There was none. Mr. Meinglass said that he wanted more discussion of other alternatives before he voted. Mr. Kleinglass said that he was not convinced that lights were necessary. Mr. Klemglass said he wanted to hear more about the cost and feasibility of acquiring more land. Mr. Spicer said that Mr. Kullander had already provided the Commission with several other scenarios, including: 1. Friendly Marsh 2. Resurrection Cemetery 3. TIF property near Acacia Cemetery 10 Mr. Spicer said all of the above options would cost more than lights. Mr. Meinglass then asked if the only choice the Commission faced was lights or no lights. Mr. Linnell said that both creating two fields at Friendly Marsh and buying MnDOT land would cost too much. Mr. Linnell asked if the City could construct another field at the City-owned site on Freeway Road. Mr. Kullander said that the City would have to buy 4 acres,that the underlying fee owners were not clear, and that the grading costs would be higher. Mr. Kullander said that land costs could be as high as $40,000/acre for a total acquisition cost of$160,000. Mr. Linnell said that the total cost would be over$300,000 which would be too much for the Special Park Fund. But,Mr. Linnell added,the Freeway Road site would have the advantage of not being an objectionable location. Ms. Blesener said that if the ROW was required by the City for a road, they could get a better price from MnDOT. Ms. Blesener suggested that the Park could be an interim use. Ms. Blesener added that the Army could do the grading for a lower cost. Ms.Norton made a motion that the Commission recommend that no lights be put in at this time, and that Staff look at the Freeway Road site and other options for the most cost- effective way to create more ballfields. Ms. Damberg said that the Park Fund should not be depleted because it was needed elsewhere. Ms. Damberg added that-We was not convinced that all had been done to fix the current MHAA schedule. Mr. Kilburg said that he plays adult softball and coaches youth baseball. Mr. Kilburg said that the Task Force has looked at all the other land acquisition options. Mr. Kilburg added that Mr. Kullander had provided the Task Force with land acquisition options and their costs, and that the most cost-effective way to increase field capacity was to put up lights at Mendakota. Mr. Kilburg said that better scheduling could not be done unless the City took MHAA over. Mr. Kilburg expressed regrets that Mr.Norton was not present, since he was busy coaching. Mr. Kilburg said that there isn't even enough field time available for practicing, and that it was rare to have a field open, as all the fields are scheduled for games. Mr. Kilburg insisted that Lights would address the long-term needs of the community, except for the need for one more 90' field. Mr. Kilburg added that a lot of people would benefit from the lights, both youth and adults. • 11 Ms. Damberg reminded the Commission that a referendum had passed for Softball and Baseball for 3.4 million dollars. Mr. Kilburg stated that the referendum included many other improvements such as neighborhood parks, soccer fields, and bike trails. Mr. Meinglass asked why he was hearing two completely different stories about field usage, one that they were being fully used, and the other that they were being grossly underused. Mr. Spicer said that fields were not being used in the afternoons. Mr. Kilburg said that some fields would also have to be left open for rain-outs/make-up games. Mr.Meinglass again asked if lights were the only option to solve this problem. W. Kilburg said that yes, they were. Mr. Kilburg added that he had looked at other options, and was now more convinced than ever that lights would be the most cost- effective means of addressing the problem. Mr. Spicer remarked that Ms. Blesener and he had worked on this issue together when the fields were first constructed. Mr. Spicer said that although some people are pro-lights and some are anti-lights, he knew of no other 4-field complex anywhere that did not have lights. Ms. Norton said that she did not want to delete the Park Fund. Mr. Batchelder said that the City use funds from the Special Park Fund and replenish it later, through the u$e of available revenue streams such as the general fund, donations from MHAA user-fees, and concessions. Mr. Spicer said that the Park Fund was currently quite high, and that it had doubled in the last 5 years. Ms.Norton said that Mr. Batchelder couldn't prove that the Park Fund would be replenished. Mr. Batchelder said that replenishing the Park Fund would be the prudent option. W. Batchelder added that the Fund could be restored through MHAA donations, concession sales, general fund contributions and user fees and the Finance Director would recommend this approach, if a decision is made to build lights. Mr. Linnell said that MHAA would donate some money. Mr. Kilburg suggested that Pull Tabs be allowed to contribute. 12 Ms. Blesener said that when the referendum was passed, many people said that the City could not coordinate field usage with the school district, and that this fear had proven to be groundless. Ms. Blesener suggested that the City look at industrial land for fields, even outside of City borders. Mr. Spicer said that he is tired of talking about ballfields, and that they have discussed this for two years. Mr. Spicer added that the City Council does whatever it wants to anyway. Mr. Spicer insisted that the City had already been creative in searching for alternatives for ballfields. Mr. Kilburg said that in the previous two years the City had considered all available options. Mr. Spicer said that no matter what you do,you always make somebody mad. Mr. Kilburg said that it would be a waste of a great facility to not put up lights. Ms. Blesener insisted that her opposition to the lights is not just parochial, and that she felt lights anywhere were bad for Mendota Heights. Mr. Spicer countered that the only people he had heard object to lights were neighbors of the park. Ms. Norton again offered her motion that lights not be put in, and that the City investigate using the Freeway Road site. Mr. Kleinglass offered to second the motion if he could amend it to investigating any site, not just the Freeway Road site. Ms. Norton accepted the amendment and second. AYES: Norton,Damberg, HIeinglass NAYS: Spicer,Linnell, Libra Motion Fails. Mr. Linnell said that he didn't like the idea of borrowing from the Park Fund, and that the City couldn't buy other open space properties that became available. Mr. Linnell said that the City may only have about 5 years left to buy whatever remaining land there is. Mr. Linnell said that the question the City faces is whether or not the community could live with the existing fields or whether the City should increase the services it provides. Mr. Linnell stated that some additional demand could be met by improved scheduling. Mr. Linnell offered a motion that the Commission recommend first investigating the construction of a field at the Freeway Road site, and only if this is not feasible, install 13 lights at Mendakota Park. Also, the Park Fund should not be depleted and the City should • "chip in". Mr. Libra said that Mr. Kullander's plan for the Freeway Road site made no accommodation for parking access. Mr. Kullander said that such details could be worked out later. Mr. Libra said that 2 fields would take 7.1 acres. Mr. Kullander said that access could be obtained from Freeway Road and parking would be accommodated on'site wherever possible. Mr. Kullander added that this would be a very tight site for two fields. Mr. Libra said that the community needs adequate facilities. Mr. Libra added that the scheduling can't be further"fine-tuned". Mr. Libra warned that if the fields were scheduled too tightly it would kill the grass and leave no room for rain-outs. Mr. Libra added that Eagan is spending a great deal of money on fields. (Mr. John Norton arrived at this point, with Mr. John Carl and two uniformed youth baseball players.) Mr. Libra continued that although the Freeway Road site cost was approximate to the lights cost,the lights would provide more games than this site. Mr. Libra felt that once again no more than 25%of the Special Park Fund should be used. Mr. Spicer said that fully one-fifth of the City's residents use the facilities, and that lights were the most cost 0ective option. Mr. Libra said that Linnell's motion would cost$360,000. Mr.Kleinglass said that he liked the Freeway Road site part of Linnell's motion but not the lights part. Mr.Norton said that the Freeway Road site could not take 2 ballfields. Mr. Norton added that the lights would take care of those younger than 14,but eventually kids grow up. Mr. Norton repeated that he had lost fields. Mr. Norton said that the Freeway Road site would be good for one 90' field. Mr. Norton added that there has been growth in girls softball and soccer, and that softball could play at Mendakota in two years. Mr. Norton said that he would like only one field at the Freeway Road site for baseball. Mr. Norton recommended against creating fields at Friendly Marsh, since they would be 14 obsolete in two years. Mr. Norton said that in two years the kids could play at all existing fields, and that the Army could do the grading for one field at the Freeway Road site. Mr. Meinglass asked if the City could install lights at a new field at the Freeway Road site. Mr. Norton said that would be possible, and that it would cost about one-fourth the cost of installing lights at Mendakota. Mr.Norton added, however,that he did not want kids thirteen or under at the Freeway Road site. Mr. Morton said that but for lack of fields, he could have 3 traveling teams of thirteen-year-olds. Mr. Norton said that he could squeeze in two games at the Freeway Road site per night if it were lit. W. Spicer said that tfie fastest-growing segment of baseball was 19+, and that kids want amateur baseball which requires the full size baseball field with 90' baselines. Mr. Norton said that the Freeway Road site would be an excellent site, and that MHAA was willing to contribute to Mendakota Lights. Mr.Norton pointed out that other cities admire the complex at Mendakota, and that the AAU regional tournament will be held there this year. Ms.Norton asked if there was still unmet demand for 13+baseball. Mr. Norton answered yes, that the"population wedge"will keep coming, and that girls . softball is also growing. Mr. Spicer pointed out that one of the reasons there was so little girls' baseball is that girls' fast-pitch softball has become s6'15opufar. Mr. Norton said that there were 91 girls in fast pitch softball this year. r Ms. Damberg asked about baseball in Junior High. Mr. Norton confirmed its existence. Ms. Damberg asked if the City would be duplicating Junior High baseball. Mr. Spicer said no,because the schools are done in mid-May. Ms. Damberg said that that still represented some experience in baseball for kids. Mr. Kleinglass pointed out that at Sibley High School 35 kids are enrolled in three sports. Mr. Spicer said that during the school year kids play 12-13 games, but that Mr. Norton's teams play 40 games during the summer season. Mr. Kleinglass added that school sports are also more competitive than MI-IAA sports. 15 Mr. Norton added that MHAA sees its role as teaching. Ms. Damberg asked if the fights would satisfy all baseball/softball needs. Mr.Norton said lights plus one 90' field would,for both short-term and long-term. Ms. Damberg said that that would cost more than the Park Fund had. Mr.Norton said that the MHAA would need a 90' field in the future unless it could rent one. Ms. Norton said that the"bump" in 13-year-olds would not continue, and that unmet needs won't continue to grow. Mr.Norton said that there is a growing demand problem all over the Twin Cities, and drew a population curve on the easel. Mr. Linnell then passed out plans he had created for improved fields at Friendly Hills middle school, expanding the outfield on the shared field, and asked if an expanded outfield would still help with a 60' baseline. Mr. Spicer asked for a second to Mr. Linnell's motion. Mr. Kleinglass said he would second it if Mr. Linnell removed any reference to lights. Mr. John Carl, Vice President of the MHAA, and co-coach of Mr. Norton, said that the new fields could not be used for 1998, since they would take 2 years. Mr. Carl said that the City needs to determine now how to head off the demand for 1997. Mr. Spicer again asked for a second to Mr. Linnell's motion. There was none. Mr. Spicer said that when he started coaching 16 years ago, he had nothing to work with, but lived to see one of his teams take 4th place nationally. Mr. Spicer said that Ms. Blesener helped create many fields. Mr. Spicer stated that Mendota Heights is falling behind other communities in the provision of athletic facilities, and that the City used to be ahead of other communities. Ms. Norton said that the City is doing plenty to serve kids now, except that the City is underserving girls. Ms. Damberg said that baseball is just a game, and that the community should focus on raising reading scores up from 60%. Mr. Carl asked what the City does currently for kids. 16 • Ms. Damberg said that the parents in the community do a lot for kids. Mr. Spicer stated that the Council had ignored repeated pleas by the Parks and Recreation Commission for a full-tune Recreation Coordinator. Ms. Norton added that the Council doesn't listen to the Parks and Recreation Commission. Mr. Kleinglass commented that the conversation had drifted beyond the topic of lights. Mr. Spicer said that the City should do more for recreation for kids. Mr. Libra again moved the.same motion that the Commission passed in February. Mr. Spicer asked for a second to this motion. There was none. Mr. Spicer said that there should be some closure on this issue. Mr.Linnell made a motion that the Parks and Recreation Commission express its belief that additional field capacity is needed, but that it was unable to come to a decision as to how to address this concern. Mr. Kleinglass seconded the above motion. AYES: 6 s NAYS: 0 PARK RESERVA46ON POLICY Ms. Damberg recommended sending a letter to Ms. Weisenburger. W. Kleinglass said Ms. Weisenburger should have called the police. Mr.Esser responded that he had suggested calling the police to Ms. Weisenburger. Mr. Libra said that residents can only reserve the pavilion, not the park itself. W. Spicer asked for a motion directing Staff to purchase a sign box with Plexiglas to post pavilion reservations in and mount it at Mendakota Park. Ms. Damberg offered to make the motion with the amendment that Staff should advise people in the future to call the police. Ms. Norton seconded the amended motion. 17 AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 ST. THOMAS SKI TRAILS Ms.Norton requested that the City discuss the issue of ski trails. Mr. Kullander said that he called St. Thomas but got no answer. Ms. Norton said that Mr. Kullander should talk to Barb Schmidt, and that this concern should be open to the public. Mr. Kullander then showed some overheads. Ms.Norton said that the County would not groom cn the lake. Mr. Libra said that the bike trail near the Ragin' Cajun is in Mendota Heights. Mr. Libra also suggested that Fort Snelling have picnic tables. Mr. Linnell said that a trail is being constructed along 494 and Cedar. Mr. Linnell added that he is going to look more closely at the Slovinski property, next to the Par 3 golf course, for a trail. Mr. Kullander explained that Mr. Slovinski wants the:buyer to leave the house,but that realistically the property will probably be subdivided into 3 or more lots. Mr. Kullander added that Mr. Slovinski is looking for a developer, that there are steep slopes in that area, and that he would provide Mr. Linnell with topographic maps of the site. ADJOURNMENT Motion to adjourn made by Libra and seconded by Kleinglass. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 The meeting adjourned at 9:45 PM. Respectfully Submitted Patrick C. Hollister 18