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1991-12-10 Parks and Rec Comm Minutes• A CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 10, 1991 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held on Tuesday, December 10, 1991, in the City Hall Large Conference Room, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 7:10 o'clock P.M. The following Commission members were present: Huber, Lundeen, Spicer, Damberg, Katz and Hunter. Commissioner Kleinglass arrived late. Also present were Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander, Civil Engineer Klayton Eckles and Administrative Assistant Kevin Batchelder. Guests at the meeting included Dave Libra, Mend -Eagan Soccer; John Bruder, Keith Campbell and Jim Adams of Sting Soccer. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Damberg moved approval of the November 12, 1991, minutes. Commissioner Spicer seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 KENSINGTON PARK - FINAL CONCEPT DESIGN Chair Huber opened the discussion by asking the soccer representatives a question about the relationship between Mend -Eagan Soccer and Sting Soccer. Mr. Keith Campbell explained they are two separate programs. He stated Sting Soccer was never a City program and explained that Mendota Heights children have been using the West St. Paul program since 1974 and they are charged a $5.00 non- resident fee by the City of West St. Paul. Mr. Campbell stated there are 150 Mendota Heights kids in the West St. Paul program and Sibley Sting is a traveling arm of this soccer program. Commissioner Spicer stated that Mend - Eagan was a Fall soccer program and the summer soccer program is conducted by the City of West St. Paul's recreation department. Spicer stated West St. Paul has no basketball program and West St. Paul kids play in Mend -Eagan basketball program with no fee charged for non-resident. Mr. John Bruder stated competitive youth soccer is played in the summer in Minnesota and there -are approximately 26,000 kids state wide. participating in the summer programs. Mr. Bruder stated a traveling soccer team was put together a few years ago and is made up of Mendota Heights and West St. Paul children, many of whom play in December 10, 1991 Page 2 both the Mend -Eagan and the West St. Paul program. Mr. Bruder stated the Sibley Sting was created to allow summer competitive youth soccer. Mr. Dave Libra explained that the fall program is not in competition with the summer program and many of the participants are in both programs. Mr. Libra stated the fall soccer is for both boys and girls and was stated so that non -football players would have a fall sport to play. Commissioner Huber inquired if there was any thought to moving the Mend -Eagan program to the summer. Commissioner Spicer stated that is not currently being considered. Mr. Jim Adams stated there had been a survey completed in the recent past where the respondents indicated they did not want to move the programs because they compliment each other so well. Commissioner Damberg inquired how many boys and girls participate on the Sting travel teams. Mr. Keith Campbell responded there are 150 Mendota Heights kids in the summer program and of these 50 are on the traveling team. Sting is the advanced stage of the soccer program and has five traveling girls teams and five traveling boys teams and there are 18 participants per team. Mr. Campbell stated the ages of the traveling team participants are 7 to 19 years old and the number of participants has greatly increased over the last two years. Chair Huber asked Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander to review the current drawings. Kullander stated that his memo presented what had been discussed at the last meeting and also included a revised plan based on the comments City staff had received from Mend -Eagan and Sting since the last monthly meeting. Kullander stated the Parks Commission should either confirm what they had decided for the concept last month or revise the north and south park areas based on more recent input. Commissioner Huber stated the Parks Commission had received a memo or letter from both Sting and Mend -Eagan concerning specifics of the soccer field design and the Parks Commission should go through each of these request one -by -one. Huber stated Item No. 1 was the location of the power poles and the high wire lines running through the corner of east soccer field and that this dictated the location and size of the two soccer fields that could be provided. Huber pointed out that the revised plans showed the east field moved closer to the west field, December 10, 1991 Page 3 eliminating the ability to expand the west field to a larger size and also narrowing the setbacks between the two fields. A discussion ensued about moving the NSP power poles and raising the sag point of the wires as they cross the fields. Parks Project Manager Kullander estimated it would be approximately $20,000 to relocate a pole and that we are constrained by the need to stay within the easement if the wires are shifted. Kullander stated it was a possibility to add a new pole that would raise the sag point. The Parks and Recreation Commission directed staff to get an estimate from NSP about the possibility of moving poles or raising the sag point. Sting representatives indicated that their preference was Option B, the plan that showed moving the fields to the west away from the power lines. Chair Huber introduced the issue of crowning the fields as opposed to the original design which relied upon sheet drainage. Civil Engineer Klayton Eckles addressed the question about crowned fields verses sheet drainage by stating that the original design had relied upon sheet drainage because it would cost approximately $30,000 less to construct it. Eckles stated the grade elevations are a problem on the east end of the site because of the development grades that will be constructed with the multi -family units there. Eckles stated that Option B crowds the fields to the west where there are some grade changes. Eckles explained that a properly crowned field is actually crowned both ways from the center and also crowned toward both goals. Eckles explained that the sheet drainage design relied on a one percent grade and this means a one foot change in elevation in one hundred feet. Eckles stated this is a very gentle slope and would be hard to detect with the naked eye. Commissioner Lundeen stated that puddling areas are a function of the soils underneath the turf. Lundeen stated sheet drainage is more likely to retain water that has to drain for a further distance than on a crowned field. Commissioner Lundeen stated that typically Mendota Heights is not sandy soil which provides a better percolation. Lundeen stated a crown field splits the drainage into two separate directions and water does not have to drain as far with the crown field. Lundeen stated that most play on a soccer field is down the middle and the crown helps the field dry in the middle at a faster rate. Mr. Jim Adams stated Visitation field which was recently December 10, 1991 Page 4 constructed has severe drainage and puddling problems. Mr. Eckles pointed out that the Visitation field is a crown field with poor drainage along sides of field. Engineer Eckles explained that additional storm sewer piping is necessary with a crown field and because the fields have been moved further to the west we have lost a shoulder area on the west side of the site. Eckles stated that as a soccer player he feels a crown field is best, however as an engineer and City resident, he feels that the $30,000 necessary to construct the crown fields may not be worth it. Commissioner Spicer inquired if the $30,000 in extra costs for crown fields included both fields. Eckles responded yes. Commissioner Spicer inquired, that if this is a highly active area with multiple uses, which would be better crown or sheet drainage? Eckles responded that with sandy soil sheet drainage may be better and it is really dependent upon the soil. Kullander stated the developer's agreement called for six inches of topsoil on this site. Some regrading will be necessary in order to crown the fields. Commissioner Kleinglass arrived at 7:45 o'clock P.M. Mr. Dave Libra, Mend -Eagan Soccer, stated he appreciated the cooperation from the City in working out the design for the soccer fields and he felt that moving the power lines was a primary issue and that he is concerned the field not under the power line have proper drainage as it would be the primary field. Chair Huber introduced the fencing request. There was a consensus of the Parks Commission that at a minimum a six foot fence be built around the site. Kullander stated he was proposing a six to eight foot fence along I-494 with tree plantings to provide additional screening. Behind each goal along I-494 would be a twenty-eight foot kick barrier. There was a discussion between the Commission and the soccer representatives about how high the fence should be along I-494 to keep balls from rolling into the right-of-way. The Commission decided to bid two heights on the fence and choose one at a later date after the West St. Paul site had been visited and proper fence height determined. They would consider ten foot fence on the ends of the field along I-494 with a six foot fence bordering the Centex multi -family units. A gate along the MnDOT right-of-way was discussed. Chair Huber stated it seemed everybody was in agreement December 10, 1991 Page 5 with sprinkling being provided. Chair Huber inquired if the forty foot separation between the two soccer fields was adequate. There was consensus on this item. Chair Huber inquired about the backstops that had been in last month's concept design. The Commission and guests were of a consensus that the backstops should be deleted from the plan. Mr. Keith Campbell stated that while the crowned fields were the first priority of the Sting soccer he was concerned that any backstops in this area would add to the wear and tear in the goal areas of the soccer fields. Chair Huber stated the concession stand request should be prefaced by comments that the City has not yet decided how to handle the concession stand or lease at Mendakota Park and there would be no guarantee that Sting or Mend - Eagan would actually end up running any concession stand built by the City. Chair Huber explained the City has not yet sought bids on the lease of the Mendakota stand and he is aware the fire department and an outside private interest have both expressed interest in operating the concession stands. Mr. John Bruder stated Sting would like to see a concession area with this park design. Parks Project Manager Kullander explained that at the October meeting the building had been designed with an overhang. Kullander stated that by the November meeting the Parks Commission had decided a picnic area with shelters would be better than an overhang which would be adjacent to the parking lot. Kullander displayed potential kiosks that could provide shelter from the elements on the other side of the play equipment, away from the parking lot. Kullander explained the building originally proposed included two toilets, mechanical room and a storage area at an approximate cost of $50,000 to $60,000. Kullander stated adding a concession area would cost approximately $10,000. Chair Huber stated if it was Sting's intent to sell simply pop and potato chips that this could be handled by vending machines. Chair Huber stated that anything beyond simple vending items require health code improvements that can become quiet expensive in designing the concession area. Chair Huber inquired if a concession area was absolutely necessary and if it was a high priority of the soccer interests. Chair Huber inquired if vending machines would be sufficient. Mr. Keith Campbell responded that the power lines and the crowning of the fields are the priority issues, however a concession area was provided at the softball fields and a concession area should be provided at the soccer area. Commissioner Lundeen stated he disagreed on this issue December 10, 1991 Page 6 and stated Mendakota Park had been considered a different level of park as a community park. Commissioner Spicer explained the Sibley concession area was built at the request of Independent School District No. 197 and that Mendakota Park had been considered a community park with lots of other activities planned for it besides softball and Mendakota Park had been considered the flag ship park of the City. Chair Huber introduced the request to provide lighting at the soccer fields. Commissioner Spicer stated all requests for lighted fields have always been turned down by City Council. Spicer stated there are no parks or fields in Mendota Heights that have lights, in fact there are very few street lights in the City. Mr. Dave Libra made a request that the north park area be kept open for use as a multi use field. Mr. Libra explained the fall soccer schedule and stated currently Mend -Eagan uses three fields: Ivy, Wentworth and Friendly Hills Parks. He stated by keeping the north park area open for multi use it would alleviate scheduling problems for Mend -Eagan and would give them a three field capability allowing the Mend -Eagan soccer to be basically in one location in the City. Chair Huber stated the Parks Commission has been through a lot of discussion on the north park area over the past two monthly meetings and that issue would be discussed a little later in the agenda. Commissioner Spicer moved that the Parks and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council to approve a concept design as follows: 1. That the Parks and Recreation Commission recommend Option B showing two crowned soccer fields in the relocated areas away from the power lines. 2. That the Parks and Recreation Commission direct staff to inquire with NSP about the best possible solution to alleviating the proximity of the power lines to the soccer fields including options of relocating the wires and/or raising the wires. 3. That the Parks and Recreation Commission recommend the fencing on the site should be six feet around with a ten foot fence behind the fields on both the north and south with twenty-eight foot high kick barriers at the I-494 end of the soccer goals. December 10, 1991 Page 7 4. That the Parks and Recreation Commission recommend sprinkling and irrigation be included. 5. That the there be Parks and Recreation Commission recommend no backstops included in this design. 6. That the there be Parks and Recreation Commission recommend no lighting of the fields. 7. That the not to include Parks and Recreation Commission recommend a concession area in the building. 8. That the equipment storage design for nets and soccer be included. 9. That two or three small picnic shelter areas should be included in the design instead of an overhang attached to the building. These picnic shelters will be located east of the play equipment. Commissioner Hunter seconded the motion. AYES: NAYS: NORTH KENSINGTON PARK AREA Chair Huber stated there had been long discussions with some controversy over the design of the north park. Huber stated that last month the Commission voted for a very active use concept in this area with hard court facilities. Administrative Assistant Batchelder explained that in October staff had come forward with a recommendation the north park area be mostly an open grass area for multi use fields with trails, parking lot and a backstop with benches without a skinned in field. Batchelder stated Mr. Kullander had been selected to be the design person for this park and his original design had been based on his understanding of the intent for this park. Batchelder stated at the October meeting there had been requests to design the park as a more passive style park and at that point the Parks and Recreation Commission had directed staff to look into including Hagstrom-King Park in the design concept for this area's park needs. Batchelder stated in November the north park had been recommended to be a very active park with tennis facilities, basketball facilities, horseshoe facilities, picnic shelters, enhanced trail system and parking lot. Batchelder stated staff had input from two Councilmembers regarding this preliminary recommendation. Batchelder stated the Councilmembers had December 10, 1991 Page 8 indicated this park area design could be determined in the future and in the meanwhile we could simply grade and seed this area and wait for the development of this area to dictate the needs in this park. Batchelder stated there was a concern about changing the nature of Hagstrom-King Park. Parks Project Manager Kullander stated the grading for the homes in this area might not occur at the same time schedule the City desires to construct this summer. He stated some of the grading work may damage improvements if the City puts them in too soon. Kullander stated that he felt some grading must occur in this park and at a minimum black dirt and seeding be done. The soccer representatives at the meeting that a grass multi use area would be the preferred option. Chair Huber inquired of the Parks and Recreation Commission whether they decided to proceed with their original recommendation for an active use area or to do the minimal park design at this time and put other decisions on hold. Commissioner Hunter stated he had no problems with a grass field only level of park improvement at this time and that often spending money is too easy to do as a Commission. He stated the City could grade and seed the field and continue to look at the options in this area. Commissioner Spicer stated a grass only area was okay and that we can revisit this issue in the future. Commissioners Katz, Kleinglass and Lundeen stated this approach was okay with them. Commissioner Damberg stated she had no problems about developing this site at a later date, however she still would like the Parks Commission to take a look at Hagstrom-King and the north park area in Kensington for design options to address the need for passive park and active park. Chair Huber stated everyone should be aware that we are not agreeing at this point that this park will never be developed for active uses. Mr. Dave Libra explained that Mend -Eagan soccer could use this field in the fall for approximately a seven week period for afternoon games. Mr. Libra stated these are the younger children that would be using this field. He stated it would be similar in size to existing fields at Friendly Hills and Wentworth and that this would be a low key use with parents and children attending the games. Chair Huber summarized the Parks and Recreation Commission position that this area be graded out flat, seeded for grass and see what happens in the future. Chair Huber stated there are forces that want to see it as a "not" active park and that there are also forces out AYES: 7 NAYS: 0 December 10, 1991 Page 9 there that want to see it as a developed practice field. Sting representatives requested the City notify them when further consideration of the park design is done. Commissioner Spicer moved that the north area of Kensington Park be recommended as a grass field only as a temporary solution with the design concept to be looked at in the future. Commissioner Hunter seconded the motion. Mr. John Bruder stated Sting Soccer appreciates the time and energy and consideration given to their request by the Parks and Recreation Commission and staff. He stated he would like to see the Parks Commission, as a group, take an aggressive stance on the power line issue and its location to the fields. Mr. Bruder stated this decision at this time would be critical to the future use of these fields and we need to provide a good solution now before the fields are built. Chair Huber stated he appreciates the complimentary remarks and thanked the guests for a positive meeting. INDOOR PARK REQUEST Chair Huber stated that when he first saw the request for an indoor park he was surprised to see this person was only asking for something the size of a classroom. Commissioner Katz stated she felt this request was a good idea. Administrative Assistant Batchelder explained that the City had received a letter from a resident requesting the City to look into the idea of an indoor park for toddlers and their parents in the winter, when it is impossible to play outdoors. Batchelder explained he had included in his memo some of the current resources available to parents including the Community Education Department, Early Childhood and Family Education Department, private dance classes and Turner's Gymnastics. Commissioner Damberg stated that she is empathetic to the request, however the City's recreation program is only at an embryo stage at this point. Damberg stated that the recreation program needs to be determined by the City first before we can explore ideas such as this which she believes is a good idea. She stated this resident should explore her options with Independent School District No. 197 and with private businesses in the area. December 10, 1991 Page 10 HARRIET ISLAND LILYDALE REGIONAL PARK Administrative Assistant Batchelder stated the City had received a request from the Metropolitan Council regarding St. Paul's application to fund the improvements they desire to see at the Lilydale/Harriet Island Regional Park. Batchelder stated his attached letter was the preliminary staff response to the Metropolitan Council's request. Batchelder provided a brief presentation on the design of the Lilydale portion of the Regional Park. Commissioner Damberg stated it would be nice to contact the homeowners in the Ivy Falls area. PARK DEDICATION Administrative Assistant Batchelder explained the City had received an offer to dedicate an outlot to the City's park system. Batchelder stated that the location of this outlot is at the end of Mallard Lane on the other side of the pond area from City Hall, Commissioner Damberg moved to recommend that the City Council accept this park dedication. Commissioner Hunter seconded the motion. AYES: NAYS: VERBAL UPDATES Parks Project Manager Kullander explained the Federal Disabilities Act which was now coming into effect might stipulate that the City's new play equipment provide equal play for handicapped equipment. Kullander explained this meant if a swing or slide was built that was not handicap accessible, the City would have to provide similar piece of equipment that is handicapped accessible. Kullander stated it might be prudent for the City to wait for more formal and specific guidelines to come out before deciding on the level of improvement to the play equipment at Kensington Park. Commissioner Damberg stated like to be considered on she had two items she would ADJOURN December 10, 1991 Page 11 discussed regarding the possibility of putting native wild flowers along our City bike trails. Commissioner Damberg provided a copy of an article on the wild flower issue. There being no further business, the Parks and Recreation Commission adjourned their meeting at 9*20 o'clock P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kevin Batchelder Administrative Assistant