1996-06-11 Parks and Rec Comm MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES
JUNE 11, 1996
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held
on Tuesday, June 11, 1996, in the Council Chambers at City Hall, i 101 Victoria Curve.
The meeting was called to order at 6:35 PM.
The following members were present: Libra, nglass, Spicer, and Damberg. Liberacki
was excused from the meeting. (Norton and Linnell arrived late.) Also present were City
Administrator Kevin Batchelder, Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander, Recreation
Programmer Chris Esser, and Administrative Intern Patrick C. Hollister.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Damberg moved to approve the May 14, 1996 Minutes. Commissioner
Libra seconded the motion.
AYES: _ 4
NAYS: 0
SUMMER UNDER THE SUN
(Both Ms. Norton and Mr. Linneil arnved at this point.)
Ms. Jennifer Ready/of ISD 197 Community Education gave a brief overview of the
Summer Under the Sun program. Ms. •Ready explained that West St. Paul and Mendota
Heights have traditionally contributed to the program in equal amounts, although fewer
Mendota Heights children have been involved in the program than West St. Paul children.
Ms. Ready explained that part of this discrepancy may arise from the fact that the program
has been based at Grass Junior High in West Saint Paul. Ms. Ready added that the
program would move to the new Friendly Hills middle school by 1998.
Mr. Spicer asked if anyone would like to make a motion that the Commission recommend
continued funding of this program on a year-to-year basis at a level commensurate with
the level of involvement of Mendota Heights children for 1997 and beyond, with an annual
ceiling of $3,000. Ms. Norton offered this motion. Ms. Damberg seconded this motion.
AYES: 5
NAYS: 0
ABSTENTIONS: 1 (Linnell)
NORTHERN STATES POWER - ROGERS LAKE SUBSTATION
Pat Cline of NSP introduced his colleagues Dave Callahan, Sheldon Silverman, and Joe
Mansur. Mr. Cline said that he would allow Mr. Callahan to explain NSP's intentions and
then entertain any questions the Commission may have.
Mr. Callahan explained that NSP does not intend to change the footprint or size of the
NSP substation. Mr. Callahan explained that there are currently 2 hills within the NSP
fence, and that NSP intends to excavate one hill and install sheet piling in its place. Mr.
Callahan also said that NSP intends to install 3 additional power poles for the rerouting of
a power line.
Mr. Callahan said that NSP is asking the City for temporary easements for working space
within the park to make these changes. Mr. Callahan elaborated that NSP may need the
temporary easement for vehicle turning and maintenance of the substation during this
project.
Mr. Callahan explained that NSP had been directed to come before the Parks and
Recreation Commission by the Planing Commission to present their landscape plan. Mr.
Callahan showed the Commission two photos of the substation as one looks south:
1. A composite of three photographs showing the current view of the substation.
2. A computer -enhanced simulation of the same view with the new berming, trees, and
poles.
Mr. Callahan also showed the Commission a photo of the two types of poles NSP could
install. Mr. Callahan explained that the preferred pole is 75 feet high and stacks the wires
vertically, which results in a cleaner, less busy appearance than the 55 foot pole which uses
a horizontal T support to hang the wires.
Mr. Callahan then referred the Commission to their packets, wherein they had been given
maps of the proposed berming and landscaping. Mr. Callahan explained that although the
map showed a culvert running through a berm, this could be eliminated by making some
minor alterations. Mr. Callahan said that the NSP property line ran just north of the
substation fence. Mr. Callahan added that NSP intended to remove about 760 cubic yards
of dirt from the substation which would be used to enlarge the two existing berms.
Mr. Linnell had several concerns to share with NSP.
Mr. Linnell commented that two of the new poles would be near the soccer field, and thus
would increase the general impact of the substation on the park.
Mr. Linnell also commented that he presumed the reason why NSP was choosing to use
sheet piling inside the substation was the presence of a propane gas line. Mr. Linnell
Mr. Kullander said that the City would like to save those pine trees if they would be
destroyed.
Mr. Silverman explained that NSP would work from inside the substation to the greatest
extent possible and not disturb these trees.
Ms. Damberg asked NSP what size trees they intended to plant for their landscaping.
Mr. Callahan replied that spruce trees in the 4'- range had the best survival rate and
grew faster than larger trees. Mr. Callahan added that the Colorado Spruce can grow to
be 45' high and that NSP did not want to have to prune such tall trees in the future if they
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conflicted with the power line.
Mr. Batchelder observed that the Commission had raised two very important issues this
evening: the potential disruption of vegetation at the northeast of the substation and the
issue of noise from sheet piling.
Mr. Callahan said that sheet piling would only occur during normal business hours.
Mr. Silverman added that total excavation and sheet piling would take about 2-3 weeks.
Mr. Silverman said that NSP did not yet have a contract for the sheet piling, and thus
there was still an opportunity to restrict the sheet piling activity to, for example, 7:30am-
4:30 pm for four days/week. Mr. Silverman added that however the hours were
restricted, the sheet piling would still have to occur for at least 40 hours/week in order to
get it done in a timely manner.
Mr. Spicer asked about the fate of the northeast vegetation.
Mr. Silverman said that NSP would not be cutting down trees, and instead would bring
the dirt through the NSP site. Mr. Silverman added that the new berming may disrupt
traffic on the existing bike trail when the dirt is being moved onto the berm areas.
Mr. Spicer asked for a motion to recommend approval of NSP's plans, subject to the
creation of a better landscape plan by a committee consisting of NSP, City Staff, and Mr.
Linnell.
Mr. Linnell offered to make the above motion with an amendment that the landscape plan
include restrictions on hours of operation for sheet piling.
Mr. Libra offered to second the motion with another amendment that the committee
include someone from the Neighborhood Association. (Ms. Blesener later that evening
offered to be this person.)
Jr.
Cline said that NSP wishes to present this new landscape plan to the Planning
Commission on the 25th of June.
Mr. Black elaborated that the data shows an increase in MHAA participation between
1990 and 1995, but a slight decrease between 1995 and 1996. Thus, Mr. Black observed,
this document gives "talking points" to both sides of the debate.
Mr. Black said that MHAA was not clear on how many fields it was losing. Mr. Black
continued that MHAA has lost fields in West Saint Paul and a middle school, but will gain
fields with the new Friendly Hills Middle School in Mendota Heights. Mr. Black said that
the new Friendly Hills Middle School will have one "whole" field and one field shared with
soccer. Mr. Black also said that recent scheduling changes at Mendakota have allowed it
to play 6 additional games per week, including each Sunday night. Mr. Black explained
that Monday -Thursday at 6:00 or 6:30 was considered "prime time" for games.
Mr. Black said that the benefit of lights would be a total of 16 youth games/week, whereas
currently the youth are playing 6 games/week at Mendakota. Thus, said Mr. Black, lights
would provide an increase of 10 games/week, or 100 games for one 10-week season.
Mr. Black said that those who are opposed to the lights feel that there are other ways to
achieve the same benefit that would be superior to installing lights at Mendakota Park.
Mr. Black also pointed out that the last sentence in John Norton's memo pointed out that
while a 75' field was sufficient for younger kids, older kids needed at least 90'.
Mr. Spicer said that the City only had one 90' field.
Mr. Black responded that the 90' field shortage would not be solved by lights. Mr. Black
said that those who favor lights argue that lights cost less than new fields. But, Mr. Black
countered, the City/already owns property which it could use for fields. Mr. Black also
asked if perhaps f'dur to six games a week could be played at the new Middle School.
Mr. Black suggested that fields be built at Friendly Marsh Park or Highway 149 right-of-
way which is not built upon and which the City could acquire. Mr. Black also suggested
that two fields could be created in Friendly Marsh Park for less than the cost of lights at
Mendakota. Mr. Black said that these two new fields could add 8 games/week, or 10
games/week with Sundays.
Mr. Black repeated that those who are opposed to the lights feel that other ways would
be better to achieve the same result. Mr. Black said that if lights were installed, kids could
use the fields from 6:30-8:00 and adults could use the fields at 8:00 and 9:00. Mr. Black
said that the lights would only be used until the end of July and would be out at lOpm.
Mr. Black said that the lights would only be used for a ten -week period, and that new
fields would not have the same restrictions. Mr. Black also suggested that the Army could
do the grading for any new field construction.
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Mr. Black responded that there would be no recommendation, and that the purpose of the
Task Force was to "provide the battlefield".
Mr. Spicer recommended a 5-minute intermission to allow the Commission time to read
the Findings document.
Mr. Friedman stated that some of John Norton's figures were too high:
• 555 > 509 (Baseball)
• 356 > 339 (T-Ball)
• 350> 342 (Girls' Softball)
Mr. Friedman also objected to the way Mr. Norton calculated the "Annual Increase" in
participation. Mr. Friedman said that taking the percentage increase over a five-year
period and dividing it by five does not render the "Annual increase".
Mr. Black reiterated that the Task Force had no recommendation.
Ms. Norton asked how much the lights would cost.
Mr. Kullander responded about $225,000 maximum. Mr. Batchelder stated that the lights
would be designed by a professional firm on a competitive basis and the estimated range
was $150,000 to $225,000,
Mr. Spicer than called for afive-minute recess to provide the Commission time to read the
findings document.
(Intermission)
After the intermission, Mr. Spicer asked Jan Blesener if she would be interested in serving
on the committee to design the landscaping for NSP.
Ms. Blesener responded that yes, she would, since her house was among the closest to the
NSP substation. Ms. Blesener said that the decibel reading at her house was at 50 dB, the
same level as at the fence of the substation, and that the hum in her house sounded like "a
broken florescent light".
Mr. Spicer commented that NSP claims that the dB level would go from 49 to 47 after the
project, which is a more significant drop than it sounds like since dB is a logarithmic scale.
Mr. Spicer then asked for a motion on Mendakota Lights.
Mr. Kieinglass suggested tabling the discussion to the July Park and Recreation
Commission meeting.
Mr. Spicer said all of the above options would cost more than lights.
Mr. Klemglass then asked if the only choice the Commission faced was lights or no lights.
Mr. Linnell said that both creating two fields at Friendly Marsh and buying MnDOT land
would cost too much. Mr. Linnell asked if the City could construct another field at the
City -owned site on Freeway Road,
Mr. Kullander said that the City would have to buy 4 acres, that the underlying fee owners
were not clear, and that the grading costs would be higher. Mr. Kullander said that land
costs could be as high as $40,000/acre for a total acquisition cost of $160,000.
Mr. Linnell said that the total cost would be over $300,000 which would be too much for
the Special Park Fund. But, Mr. Linnell added, the Freeway Road site would have the
advantage of not being an objectionable location.
Ms. Blesener said that if the ROW was required by the City for a road, they could get a
better price from MnDOT. Ms. Blesener suggested that the Park could be an interim use.
Ms. Blesener added that the Army could do the grading for a lower cost.
Ms. Norton made a motion that the Commission recommend that no lights be put in at this
time, and that Staff look at the Freeway Road site and other options for the most cost-
effective way to create more ballfields.
Ms. Damberg said that the Pazk Fund should not be depleted because it was needed
elsewhere. Ms. Damberg added that 9ffe was not convinced that all had been done to fix
the current MHAA schedule.
W. Kilburg said that he plays adult softball and coaches youth baseball. Mr. Kilburg said
that the Task Force has looked at all the other land acquisition options. Mr. Mlburg
added that Mr. Kullander had provided the Task Force with land acquisition options and
their costs, and that the most cost-effective way to increase field capacity was to put up
lights at Mendakota.
Mr. Kilburg said that better scheduling could not be done unless the City took MHAA
overI Mr. Kilburg expressed regrets that Mr. Norton was not present, since he was busy
coaching. Mr. Kilburg said that there isn't even enough field time available for practicing,
and that it was rare to have a field open, as all the fields are scheduled for games.
Mr. Kilburg insisted that Lights would address the long-term needs of the community,
except for the need for one more 90' field. Mr. Kilburg added that a lot of people would
benefit from the lights, both youth and adults.
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Ms. Blesener said that when the referendum was passed, many people said that the City
could not coordinate field usage with the school district, and that this fear had proven to
be groundless. Ms. Blesener suggested that the City look at industrial land for fields, even
outside of City borders.
Mr. Spicer said that he is tired of talking about ballfields, and that they have discussed this
for two years. Mr. Spicer added that the City Council does whatever it wants to anyway.
Mr. Spicer insisted that the City had already been creative in searching for alternatives for
ballfields.
Mr. Kilburg said that in the previous two years the City had considered all available
options.
Mr. Spicer said that no matter what you do, you always make somebody mad.
Mr. Kilburg said that it would be a waste of a great facility to not put up lights.
Ms. Blesener insisted that her opposition to the lights is not just parochial, and that she felt
lights anywhere were bad for Mendota Heights.
Mr. Spicer countered that the only people he had heard object to lights were neighbors of
the park.
Ms. Norton again offered her motion that lights not be put in, and that the City investigate
using the Freeway Road site.
Mr. Kleinglass offered to second the motion if he could amend it to investigating any site,
not just the Freeway Road site.
Ms. Norton accepted the amendment and second.
AYES: Norton, Damberg, I{leinglass
NAYS: Spicer, Linnell, Libra
Motion Fails.
Mr. Linnell said that he didn't like the idea of borrowing from the Park Fund, and that the
City couldn't buy other open space properties that became available. Mr. Linnell said that
the City may only have about 5 years left to buy whatever remaining land there is. Mr.
Linnell said that the question the City faces is whether or not the community could live
with the existing fields or whether the City should increase the services it provides. Mr.
Linnell stated that some additional demand could be met by improved scheduling.
Mr. Linnell offered a motion that the Commission recommend first investigating the
construction of a field at the Freeway Road site, and only if this is not feasible, install
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obsolete in two years. Mr. Norton said that in two years the kids could play at all existing
fields, and that the Army could do the grading for one field at the Freeway Road site.
Mr. KMeinglass asked if the City could install lights at a new field at the Freeway Road site.
Mr. Norton said that would be possible, and that it would cost about one-fourth the cost
of installing lights at Mendakota. Mr. Norton added, however, that he did not want kids
thirteen or under at the Freeway Road site. Mr. Morton said that but for lack of fields, he
could have 3 traveling teams of thirteen -year -olds. Mr. Norton said that he could squeeze
in two games at the Freeway Road site per night if it were lit.
Mr. Spicer said that the fastest -growing segment of baseball was 19+, and that kids want
amateur baseball which requires the full size baseball field with 90' baselines.
Mr. Norton said that the Freeway Road site would be an excellent site, and that MHAA
was willing to contribute to Mendakota Lights. Mr. Norton pointed out that other cities
admire the complex at Mendakota, and that the AAU regional tournament will be held
there this year.
Ms. Norton asked if there was still unmet demand for 13+ baseball.
Mr. Norton answered yes, that the "population wedge" will keep coming, and that girls
softball is also growing.
Mr. Spicer pointed out that one of the reasons there was so little girls' baseball is that
girls' fast -pitch softball has become so popular.
Mr. Norton said that there were 91 girls in fast pitch softball this year.
Ms. Damberg asked about baseball in Junior High,
Mr. Norton confirmed its existence.
Ms. Damberg asked if the City would be duplicating Junior High baseball.
Mr. Spicer said no, because the schools are done in mid -May.
Ms. Damberg said that that still represented some experience in baseball for kids.
Mr. Meinglass pointed out that at Sibley High School 35 kids are enrolled in three sports.
Mr. Spicer said that during the school year kids play 1243 games, but that Mr. Norton's
teams play 40 games during the summer season.
Mr. Kleinglass added that school sports are also more competitive than MHAA sports.
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S. Ramberg said that the parents in the community do a lot for kids.
Mr. Spicer stated that the Council had ignored repeated pleas by the Parks and Recreation
Commission for a full-time Recreation Coordinator,
Ms. Norton added that the Council doesn't listen to the Parks and Recreation
Commission,
Mr. Kleinglass commented that the conversation had drifted beyond the topic of lights.
Mr. Spicer said that the City should do more for recreation for kids.
Mr. Libra again moved the. same motion that the Commission passed in February.
Mr. Spicer asked'for a second to this motion. There was none. Mr. Spicer said that there
should be some closure on this issue.
Mr. Linnell made a motion that the Parks and Recreation Commission express its belief
that additional field capacity is needed, but that it was unable to come to a decision as to
how to address this concern.
Mr. Kleinglass seconded the above motion.
NAYS: 0
PARK RESERVAriION POLICY
Ms. Damberg recommended sending a letter to Ms. Weisenburger.
Mr. Kleinglass said Ms. Weisenburger should have called the police.
Mr. Esser responded that he had suggested calling the police to Ms. Weisenburger,
Mr. Libra said that residents can only reserve the pavilion, not the park itself.
Mr. Spicer asked for a motion directing Staff to purchase a sign box with Plexiglas to post
pavilion reservations in and mount it at Mendakota Park.
Ms. Ramberg offered to make the motion with the amendment that Staff should advise
people in the future to call the police.
As.
Norton seconded the amended motion.
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