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1996-04-09 Parks and Rec Comm MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES APRIL 9, 1996 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held on Tuesday, April 9, 1996, in the Council Chambers at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 6:30 PM. The following members were present: Libra, Kleinglass, Spicer, Norton, and Liberacki. Linnel and Damberg were excused. Also present were Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander, Recreation Programmer Chris Esser, and Administrative Intern Patrick C. Hollister, APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Libra moved to approve the March 12, 1996 Minutes. Commissioner Norton seconded the motion. AYE5: NAYS: MENDOTA HEIGHTS ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION T-BALL UPDATE The following people were present to discuss this agenda item: • Norm Gellerman, MHAA Executive Director • Sue Hanson, MHAA Executive Director • Ruth Lowenthall, Resident Ms. Lowenthall stated that she is considering suing the MHAA and/or the City for discrimination because the MHAA will not permit her 4-year-old daughter to play T-Ball. Norm Gellerman provided an overview of the MHAA T-Ball program. Mr. Gellerman said that there are three levels of T-ball, one for 5-year-olds, one for 6-year-olds, and one for 7-year olds. Mr. Gellerman said that eight -year olds are eligible for baseball. Mr. Gellerman explained that children must be 5-years-old as of July 31st to be eligible for the first level of T-Ball. Mr. Gellerman recalled that the MHAA used to allow even younger kids to play T-ball, and that this was not successful. He also remarked that many children younger than 5 were not ready to play T-Ball, leading some critics to refer to the program as "Diaper Ball." Chairman Spicer asked if any exceptions could be made to the July 31 st cut-off date. Sue Hanson answered that exceptions would not be possible. Ms. Hanson said that it is impossible for the MHAA to evaluate younger children's' readiness to play T-ball, because among young children of the same age there is a great disparity in emotional maturity, attention span, and motor skills. Ms. Hanson recalled that in the past when children younger than 5 were allowed, it created bad situations. Ms. Hanson said that some children who were already in the T-Ball program before the July 31 st cut-off date was implemented have been "grandfathered" into their current level of T-Ball. Ms. Hanson stated that if the T-ball program allowed younger kids to play, eventually age would become an issue anyway, because of strict age limits in baseball and softball. Ms. Hanson said that it would be better to be consistent now, rather than have to separate teammates down the road. Chairman Spicer asked how many kids were currently playing T-Ball. Mr. Gellerman said that he only had the figures for 1995. He said that 96 kids were in the first level (83% of whom were Mendota Heights residents), 122 kids were in the second level (77% of whom were Mendota Heights residents), and 121 kids were in the third level (77% of whom were Mendota Heights residents). Mr. Gellerman stated that many of the non-residents were actually from either Lillydale or Mendota. Chairman Spicer asked what the registration fee per participant was in T-Ball. Mr. Gellerman said that the cost was $15. He added that the cost to the MHAA for each participant was a minimum of $23.60, hence the need for the municipal subsidy. He explained that some long-term equipment and supply costs are not included in this total. Chairman Spicer invited other Commissioners to ask any questions they may have. Commissioner Norton wished to know what the gender ratio was in T-Ball. Sue Hanson responded that roughly two-thirds of the participants were male. She added that kids played three years of T-Ball and then advanced to baseball. Ms. Hanson also described programs in other cities. Mr. Gellerman said that the T-Ball program always has trouble finding space to play, and that it had to compete for space with Baseball and Softball. Mr. Gellerman reiterated that the T-Ball program does not conduct any evaluation of children's' readiness to play, and that the only criteria for eligibility was age. Ms. Lowenthall asked what the state -determined cut-off date for girl's softball was. Ms. Lowenthall said that she thought it coincided with the school year. Mr. Gellerman said that the softball cut-off date for girl's softball was August 30. Mr. Gellerman said that the MHAA used the age cut-off date of July 31, which is required by the Minnesota Youth Baseball Association. Ms. Lowenthall stated that her 4-year old daughter, by misfortune of having been born between July 31 and August 31, was to be excluded for life from playing T-Ball with the same children in her school classes. Ms. Lowenthall inquired as to the purpose of T-Ball. Was not the primary purpose, she asked, to teach sportsmanship, rather than training for higher -level sports? Ms. Lowenthall complained that if her daughter were to join T-ball, all her classmates in school would be on a different team. Ms. Lowenthall said that the T-Ball program was on shaky legal ground. Ms. Lowenthall said that the system is set up for boys to the detriment of girls such as her daughter. She said that she has arranged for a coach to train her daughter in T-Ball if she is allowed in the MHAA program. Ms. Lowenthall complained that the MHAA was too argumentative with her on the phone. She said that she was in favor of a September 1 cut-off to coincide with the school system. She said that there are many kids like hers who were born in a "bad month". Ms. Lowenthall declared that she is a lawyer. She said that the MHAA T-Ball program, and hence the City of Mendota Heights which subsidizes it, are in violation of Title 7. She said that she understands the need for a cut-off date, but that this particular date favors boys over girls. Commissioner Libra said that the same situation exists in soccer. He said that he coaches his daughter, and that discrepancies between age limits cause problems in that sport as well. Commissioner Norton suggested that making the sports cut-off dates consistent with the schools would solve these problems. Commissioner Libra stated that some parents want to hold their child back for a year from school, and at the same time push their child ahead in sports. Commissioner Norton said that such things are the parents' choice, and that they are not the sport's programs concerns. Ms. Hanson said that the MHAA cannot change the state sports associations' cut-off dates. She said that the MHAA thought about coinciding with the school date, but decided against it. She said that in some years a Transitional program has been created for kids in the "gap". Ms. Hanson told Ms. Lowenthall that she was sorry if she sounded harsh, that she did not intend to give that impression. Ms. Hanson said she sympathizes with Ms. Lowenthall's situation. Ms. Lowenthall said that she objects to using the Boys' Baseball cut-off date for T-Ball. She suggested that if the softball cutoff date were in August, participants could have the options of either petitioning or evaluation to move up. Mr. Gellerman said that in general, there is no traveling softball. Commissioner Norton asked about girls' fast pitch. Mr. Gellerman said that those teams played under the Sibley Area Sting Association which had its own bylaws. Commissioner Norton asked what the cut-off date was for Fast -Pitch. Mr. Gellerman said that it was in August. Ms. Hanson said that Dave Ayers helped create the July 31 cut-off date and he has three girls. She added that he would not have done this if he thought it was detrimental to his daughters. Commissioner Libra said that the Soccer parents asked for a Kindergarten program, volunteered themselves as coaches, and set up a program for this age group. Ms. Lowenthal) said that she had two T-Ball coaches lined up for her daughter. Ms. Lowenthall threatened to sue the MHAA and the City of Mendota Heights, Chairman Spicer said he used to be a lawyer. Mr. Spicer said that Ms. Lowenthall's legal threat had little basis. Mr. Spicer said that the MHAA should rethink its cut-off date, but that he also understood that not only state cut-off dates, but even national cut-off dates were involved in this issue. Mr. Spicer said that his own son had never played Baseball with his own age group. Ms. Lowenthal) repeated that the M1IAA has a "Title 7 problem", because the system is set up for the boystraveling baseball. Chairman Spicer said he was sorry that Ms. Lowenthal) felt that way. Ms. Hanson said that ;A and boys in the MHAA enjoy the same opportunities. She added that it is not the MHAA that is subsidized by the City, but the participants who are subsidized. Ms. Lowenthal) asked what her next step is, since she wishes to pursue her complaint further. Chairman Spicer said that she is welcome to go before the City Council with her complaint. Mr. Gellerman added that there is also a grievance procedure within the MHAA itself. Ms. Lowenthall asked Mr. Gellerman to explain that grievance procedure. Mr. Gellerman provided Ms. Lowenthall with a copy of the MHAA bylaws. Ms. Lowenthall asked to be placed on the City Council agenda. Chairman Spicer advised her to either contact City Staff if she wanted to be put on the April 16 Council meeting agenda or to participate in the Public Comment portion of the next Council meeting. Commissioner Norton asked what the consequences would be of changing the cut-off date. Mr. Gellerman said that it would conflict with national cut-off dates. Commissioner Norton expressed concern that the existing cut-off date means that girls who miss the "time window" will miss out on the experience. Ms. Lowenthall asked how many kids were in T-Ball and how many kids were in Traveling Baseball. Mr. Gellerman responded that in 1995 there were 55 Kids in traveling baseball and 339 kids in tournament baseball. Mr. Gellerman added that everyone was welcome to try out and that evaluations were done to determine eligibility for these teams. Ms. Lowenthall asked for figures for Girls' Softball. Mr. Gellerman responded that in 1995 there were 383 girls in "in-house" softball, including 2 or three tournament teams. Commissioner Kleinglass asked what the age of these girls were. Mr. Gellerman said that they were from eight to fifteen year old. Chairman Spicer said that the teams were always "mixed -age." Mr. Gellerman said that the MHAA does not guarantee that kids can play with their classmates. Commissioner Kleinglass suggested that Ms. Lowenthall talk to the MHAA on Monday. Ms. Hanson said that no matter what policy the MHAA adopted, someone would be upset. Commissioner Norton said that the MHAA should look at gender issues more closely. Chairman Spicer said that it wouldn't hurt to add a few kids. Commissioner Norton suggested that perhaps the cut-off date should be August 31 for Girls and July 31 for boys. Ms. Hanson said that parents always want their kids to play in programs that they are not eligible for. Ms. Hanson said that the MHAA had picked a cut-off date, and that it was final. Commissioner Liberacki said that the current cut-off date was gender equal. He added that the MHAA had to pick a date and go with it. Mr. Liberacki remarked that life isn't fair. Mr. Liberacki asked for a motion. Commissioner Kleinglass suggested that Ms. Lowenthall attend the Monday night MHAA meeting. Commissioner Norton said that the MHAA should reconsider the cut-off date. Ms. Lowenthall said that she would participate first in the MHAA grievance procedure. Ms. Hanson invited the City to set up its own T-ball program for 4-year-olds not currently served by the MHAA. Chairman Spicer said that the City is not interested in operating a T-ball program. Commissioner Norton agreed with Chairman Spicer. BETHEL BAPTIST CHURCH REQUEST FOR MENDAKOTA FIELDS Pastor Don Delich of the Bethel Baptist Church was present to discuss his request. Chairman Spicer summarized that the Church would like to use Mendakota fields on Fridays. Spicer said that he believed that the Church was not in Mendota Heights, and that less than 50% of the participants in the Church softball program were Mendota Heights residents. Pastor Delich said that both assumptions were correct. He explained that the church is in Sunfish Lake. Pastor Delich said that he understood that the needs of Mendota Heights residents had to be taken care of first. He said that the arrangement between the Church and the City for use of the fields had worked well in the past. He said that the Church will be requesting use of the fields for $10 per field, even though the official price was $25 per field. He said that his League actually consists of a group of churches, and that their softball program is mainly to provide some low-key fun for families. He said that the League will clean up the fields when they leave, and that their own rules prohibit the consumption of alcohol or tobacco at games. Pastor Delich said that he is willing accept any arrangements for fields that the City can provide. Chairman Spicer asked if the Church needed at least 2 fields. Pastor Delich responded that the Church would like CO use all four fields at $10 per field. He added that he understood that the Coed league scheduled to use the fields on Friday evening was dropped from the schedule due to lack of interest. Recreation Programmer Chris Esser interjected that there is currently no provision for churches in the Field Reservation Policy, Chairman Spicer said that priority must be given to Mendota Heights youth. Mr. Spicer asked for a motion to allow the Church to use the fields for $10 per field, with the caveat that priority be given to MHAA in case of conflict. Commissioner Norton made the motion. Liberacki seconded the motion. AYES: NAYS: Motion carried. Chairman Spicer directed Staff to notify Norm Gellerman of the MHAA of the Commission's vote and to resolve any conflicts with the MFlAA. Commissioner Kleinglass asked Parks Project Coordinator Guy Kullander if the Church's use of the fields involved any cost to the City. Mr. Kullander responded that it did not. Commissioner Linnel asked Pastor Delich if the Church would be using the fields every Friday. Pastor Delich responded that yes, they would. Mr. Esser said that as of this meeting, no other activities had been scheduled for the fields on Friday nights. Pastor Delich stated that his Church intended to use all four fields for about 150 people. 1995 SOFTBALL UMPIRE David Ehrlich and his fiancee, Rhonda arrived. Chairman Spicer agreed to let them discuss their concern, even though it was not on the agenda. Mr. Ehrlich explained that last year his father sponsored and paid $450 for he and his companions to play 14 recreational softball games in a park on Dodd Road. He claimed that no umpire showed up for most games on Thursday and Monday nights. He said that on Thursdays more than half of the games were without an umpire, and on Mondays about 4 or 5 games had no umpire. Mr. Erlich said he wanted a refund for the teams that played on these nights. Mr. Esser said that he had talked to Shelli, the previous Recreation Programmer. Shelly said that her policy last year was that if no scheduled umpire arrived for a game, whoever served as substitute umpire would be paid instead. Chairman Spicer said that last year the Commission received a lot of complaints about truant umpires. He added that if Mr. Deeg would refuse to pay an umpire, Shelly would refuse to pay Mr. Deeg. Mr. Spicer said that most of the complaints were for Thursday games. Mr. Spicer said that the leftover money was put into the General Fund, and that this money should be resurrected to somehow reimburse those who were victims of last year's problems. Mr. Ehrlich said that he didn't necessarily expect a full refund, but that he thought the teams were entitled to get at least a portion of the money back. Chairman Spicer suggested that it might be fair to reimburse the $17 per game umpire fees. Mr. Spicer directed Staff to research how much money was left over, who got paid and who didn't, etc., and place this issue on next month's agenda. Mr. Ehrlich recalled that Shelli had reimbursed some people last year. Mr. Spicer said that that is true, although Shelli did not publicize that these reimbursements were possible, so some people did not get the reimbursement they were entitled to. Mr. Ehrlich said that there were some nights last year when the game had to be canceled due to a lack of umpires. SAINT THOMAS REQUEST FOR TENNIS COURTS [The Commission agreed that the City Council should approve the request by St. Thomas Academy for the reservation of Roger's Lake Park and Valley Park tennis courts from April 1, 1996 to June 1, 1996, from 3:15 pm to 5:15 pm, Monday through Friday, under the condition that if a reservation at Valley Park proves to be problematic, then St. Thomas would use Marie or Wentworth Park instead. No formal motion was made on this matter.] DAKOTA COUNTY ANNUAL INFORMATION SHARING MEETING Chairman Spicer asked if any Commissioner would volunteer to attend the meeting. Commissioner Norton volunteered herself. Chairman Spicer thanked Commissioner Norton and asked her to lobby at the meeting for a cross-country ski trail at Visitation and St. Thomas, FORT SNELLING STATE PARK ADVISORY COMMITTEE Mr. Esser explained that the Committee has revealed its new Master Plan, projected through to the year 2009. Mr. Esser said that he is part of the Committee, and that he attended the first meeting which included a tour of Fort Snelling. He said that he learned about the plant in the park where they process deer meat and send it to food shelves. He concluded that he will keep the Commission updated as more meetings occur. �(�]�rif7�\`►f7 D[l'QIi`►7:f1r1 Y7\ 111 Mr. Kullander explained that the new plan for the trail contains primarily revisions for trail alignment changes in West Saint Paul, and consequently has no impact on Mendota Heights. Mr. Kullander added that there is still no Metropolitan Council approval of funding for the trail. Mr. Kullander added that until such funding was approved, there would be no detailed design of the various trail segments. ARCHITECT FOR WENTWORTH PARK SHELTER Mr. Kullander said that the current candidate for the project has requested a fee of $2500 to $3000 to design a 16' x 24' shelter similar in design to the Mendakota and Kensington Park shelters.. Chairman Spicer asked if the City could get someone else to design the shelters. Mr. Kullander suggested instead that it might be better to get the current candidate to lower his price. Mr. Kullander added that he thought the existing design used in Kensington Park could be built for $12,000 per shelter. Chairman Spicer asked for a motion. Commissioner Norton asked if it would be possible to negotiate with the current bidder. Commissioner Libra asked if the City would be needing any more shelters. Mr. Kullander responded that Friendly Hills was scheduled for a shelter in 1997. Commissioner Libra suggested that the City get a design fora 16' x 24' shelter and a release for the 16' x 16' Kensington shelter design. Mr. Kullander said that the City has the materials and specifications, and could shop for architects. Liberacki said that this would be unethical behavior for architects. Mr. Kullander said that a total cost of $18,000 was a high price. He suggested that the City could pick its own figure and ask architectural firms to meet the City's offer. Chairman Spicer asked what that figure should be. Commissioner Norton asked what the City paid originally for architectural fees in Kensington Park. Mr. Kullander answered that the figure was $8,500 for design of 2 shelters and the comfort station with total construction costs of a / 5,000 - $80,000. Chairman Spicer asked if the City needed a 16x24 shelter. He asked Mr. Kullander what his feelings were on the shelter size. Mr. Kullander responded that he would prefer 2 small shelters for $11,000 to $12,000 apieceI He explained that different groups rarely use the same shelter. He added that most groups in the park are one family of 3 to 6 persons. Chairman Spicer suggested that two 16' x 16' shelters be built now. He recommended that Staff obtain a release from the architect to allow us to use the same design and specifications from the Kensington Park shelters to save on architects' fees. Mr. Spicer then asked for a motion. Commissioner Libra moved that Commission recommend construction of the two 16x16 shelters and to obtain a release for the design from the architect. Commissioner Norton seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 Motion Carried. Libra moved to amend his motion that the price not exceed $25,000. Commissioner Norton seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 Motion Carried. FUNDING SOURCE FOR REPLACEMENT OF FIVE PARK BRIDGES IN 1995 Mr. Kullander reported that Treasurer Shaugnessy recommended that the Council fund the Park Bridge Replacement project with unused contingency funds in the 1995 Budget. This was approved at the March 19, 1996 meeting. Trail segments will be restored out of the Special Park Fund in 1996. Chairman Spicer directed Staff to thank the Council. UPDATES Staff provided updates of the following items: • Dakota Countv Parks and Recreation Council Committee Meetine • Proposal for Partnership -Mississippi River Coordinating_S s • Parks Report • Police Report • Mendakota Lights Task Force G\i�IZi I�C►!�4__► _ Motion to adjoum made by Norton and seconded einglass. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 The meeting adjourned at 8:30 PM. Respectfully Submitted, Patrick C. Hollister PO' k