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2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES December 12, 2001 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, December 12, 2001, in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Ellsworth Stein, Liz Petschel, Gregg Fitzer, Joseph Leuman and Vern Edstrom. Staff present: City Administrator Carrie Lindberg, Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioner John Roszak MINUTES Chair Beaty complimented Ms. Sullivan on the great job done on the minutes. He stated that they were the best minutes they have ever had and truly reflect the flavor the meeting. Commissioner Fitzer moved to approve the November 14, 2001 minutes. Commissioner Petschel seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 Presentation None Unfinished/New Business A. Mr. Kosel and Mr. Heide: Discussion of Rogers Lake East Issue Chair Beaty stated that Mike Kosel and Guy Heide were invited to attend the meeting to discuss their issues with the Metropolitan Airport Commission regarding the noise contours. Mr. Guy Heide, 8881 Bluebill Drive, neighbor to Mike Kosel, provided handouts to the Commission for their review. He explained the content of the packet noting that he is the Secretary for the Rogers Lake East Neighborhood Noise Reduction Committee. He reviewed the goals of the Committee with the Commission. He acknowledged that meetings such as this can get emotional and that the emotion does not help to bring the Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission meeting to a positive conclusion. He stated that he tries to find the facts before addressing issues with the Metropolitan Airport Commission and explained that addressing the factual information helps to keep emotions at a low level. Commissioner Roszak joined the meeting at 7:08 p.m. Mr. Heide explained that the process could be very intimidating. He stated that on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 he appeared before a Committee for the Metropolitan Airport Commission. He stated that the information he provided to the Commissioners at the beginning of the meeting was a copy of his presentation. He read the content of his presentation, verbatim, to the Commission. (See attachment) He referenced a contract issued by all airlines serving the metropolitan area and the Metropolitan Airport 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Commission. He explained that the contract sets forth a Home Noise Reduction Program that concludes in 2010. He reviewed the content of the contract for the DNL 65 and 1996 contours with the Commission. He explained that the contract commits the party to insulate homes. He further explained that the 1996 map determined the 1996 DNL 60 contour houses. He stated that there are two key points to this contract, that both the DNL 65 and the 60 contours are to be treated in same manner, no preferential treatment and that both areas are to be insulated. He urged the Commission to get a legal determination based on the presentation, the exhibits provided and the contract. He referenced Exhibit I of the packet and emphasized the statement 'identical treatment' stating that the proposition to use the 2005 Mitigation map violates the contract agreement. He explained that Exhibit I cannot be altered without all parties affected agreeing to all changes before implementation. He recommended obtaining legal opinions before making any changes to the contract agreement. He noted that Mr. Fuhrman refers to the contract as the 1999 Lease Agreement. Chair Beaty acknowledged an additional guest and asked Mike Kosel to introduce him to the Commission. Mr. Kosel introduced his son, Ben Kosel, to the Commission. Mr. Heide stated that he has received letters from members of the Metropolitan Airport Commission noting that the MAC would respond to all legal issues. He stated that the first issue to address is the legal issue. He explained that the Metropolitan Airport Commission represented the public in this contract agreement and that they cannot deprive the public from the agreements they made in the contract. Mr. Kosel stated that the letter in discussion was supposedly mailed to him on December 7, 2001 with a CD and that he did not receive this letter. He asked if Mendota Heights has a copy of the contract and referred to the first paragraph of the letter noting that anyone can request a copy for $125.00. He further stated that for $12,000.00 they would provide their information to them for processing in addition to the $350.00 for the software program needed to analyze the data. Mr. Heide stated that their second concern involves the 1996 map and explained that this is the map that was used to determine where the homes fall under the designated Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission contours. He reviewed the INM (Integrated Noise Module) Version 6.0a software noting that it has several significant changes in the new version including changes in the noise propagation area. He reviewed the percentage changes and explained to the Commission that what they are trying to point out here is that the 1996 map was wrong as submitted. He reviewed the code penalties and regulations and explained the safe harbor position to the Commission. Commissioner Edstrom asked for the date of the INM documentation. Mr. Heide stated it was released in the fall of 2000. Mr. Kosel referenced the RMT stating that, at the latest, they should have confirmed the error in 1999 and in all truth it should have been confirmed in 1992 or 1993 when they implemented their world re-known system. He reviewed the location of their neighborhood on the map noting that the neighborhood is included in the yellow area as part of the program and that they should have been dealt with at that time. He then referenced the 2000 map noting that Mendota Heights is not involved because it is suggested that it would be subjected to less noise at that time. He stated that the number of flights in 1999 doubled yet the RMT ratings went down. He explained that their reasoning for this is that the quieter planes are having an affect on the noise levels as the ratings are going down. He stated that they want them to base it on reality not projections. He stated that they are also trying to get a copy of the contract. Commissioner Roszak asked for clarification on the 13% referenced by Mr. Heide. Mr. 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Heide explained that it has to do with the heat and humidity. He referenced his presentation and the 70 and 75 contours, the financing and compensation and the failure, by a public agency, to disclose to the public that the error had been made. He explained that this area would have always been in the 65 contour had the map been done correctly. Commissioner Roszak clarified that with the error they are covered. Mr. Heide stated that they are covered under all circumstances unless they decide to use the 2000 projections. Commissioner Leuman stated that he did not think that they have ever used ANOMS to create the contours. Mr. Heide confirmed that noise monitors could be used but that they use the INM program to create the contours. He explained that the noise monitors are used to validate the information provided by the INM program. He reviewed the validation case and explained that they used the monitors to prove that the INM projections are correct. He stated that from 1992 to the present, they have been referencing an incorrect map. Mr. Kosel stated that one of the letters they submitted included photographs of monitors covered and buried by leaves and that they received a reply that included photographs of the same area that appeared open and clear of debris. He explained that when they inspected the area they found that they had trimmed the area back in an effort to discredit their photographs. He referenced a letter from the Minnesota Pollution Control noting Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission their participation in the calibration reports. He stated that they asked for copies of the report adding that he was told that they do not keep the reports on file. He stated that they met with the Minnesota Pollution Control adding that they believe they might have a problem and that they are were willing to participate in a noise study if the Metropolitan Airport Commission also cooperates in the study. Mr. Heide stated that they had also met with John Hensel, a Supervisor for the Metropolitan Airport Commission. He explained that they are dealing with a very powerful agency. He further explained that the results from these meetings are minimal and that their preference is that this issue would just go away. He referenced the strong influence tenured Staff has over the Commission adding that when someone questions the map or product they are questioning their vision. He stated that things would not change until facts are provided that could prove they have broken the law or violated the contract. Mr. Kosel asked if the Commission was aware that the draft they were discussing has become a final product and referenced the 180-day waiting period before acceptance. Mr. Heide stated that they are protesting based on the acceptance of a false map. Chair Beaty asked Mr. Heide if he saw this issue possibly coming to a court case. Mr. Heide explained that court would not be their first choice adding that he has discussed the issues with a lawyer and that they are pursuing further legal opinions. Mr. Kosel explained that they have tried to keep a low profile adding that they are becoming less intimidated as they have now identified 100 homes and the next step could be media attention. Mr. Heide confirmed that this could happen if they testify on Monday that the map is false. City Administrator Lindberg asked Mr. Heide when they realized the map was wrong. Mr. Heide stated that they knew in 1999. Commissioner Edstrom asked if they would bridge the lease by amending the contract between the Metropolitan Airport Commission and the Airlines. Mr. Heide explained that the agreement is for a period of ten years and the Metropolitan Airport Commission cannot unilaterally amend. He further explained that they would have to get agreement 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] and consent from everyone benefiting from the contract. City Administrator Lindberg asked them to clarify their next step in the process. Mr. Heide explained that writing the letters was their initial step in the process adding that this has raised some interest and concern. He further explained that their second issue is the concealment of the map. He stated that concealment deprives, by percentages, the homeowners of their benefits. Mr. Heide asked if Mendota Heights would be willing to contribute future funding. He stated that he would like to check into the possibilities for funding adding that there are individuals and engineers who would be available to assist. Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Mr. Kosel stated that he challenged the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission and asked them if they are willing to stand behind them on these issues. He asked them for clarification on their goals and responsibilities. Commissioner Petschel referred Mr. Kosel to their annual reports. She explained that the Commission is an advisory body to the City of Mendota Heights with respect to airport noise and operations. She stated that Chair Beaty provided the City Council with a presentation and recommendation for education on this issue and emphasized that he spoke on behalf of the Rogers Lake neighborhood. She stated that one of the reasons for meeting tonight was to provide the Commission with a better understanding that would allow them to determine their role in this issue. She further stated that theirs cannot be an emotional response and that it requires much thought before presenting any further issues. She provided Mr. Kosel with several examples of Commission involvement and support noting the positive changes that have occurred due to their involvement. She noted the changes in the evening flights and middle of night operations and the lessening of flights and noted the change in the F16’s. She emphasized that the Airport Relations Commission does not sit here and do nothing. Chair Beaty agreed with Commissioner Petschel adding that they have to provide factual information for them to work with. He stated that they want to help but can only move forward with the facts. Mr. Heide acknowledged that their concerns are legitimate and thanked them for their time. Chair Beaty asked for feedback from the Commission. Commissioner Roszak stated that he could not believe that they do not have a defense. He stated that in terms of the FAA that they would have the ability to access the information if it was a negligent error or intentional. City Administrator Lindberg asked for clarification on Tortious interference. Commissioner Roszak clarified adding that the policy decision as to where they would set the insulation lines could have been a discretionary decision and that it could include discretionary immunity because decisions at the time had to be made. He further stated that he does not believe there is a remedy for the homeowners from the FAA. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified his understanding stating that the individual homeowner is an outside beneficiary and not directly involved like the FAA. Commissioner Roszak confirmed his understanding as correct. Commissioner Petschel asked for clarification on the dual track decision and the inaccuracy of information. Commissioner Roszak clarified stating that he did not think there would be an individual reaction and stated that it could be a political reaction. Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Commissioner Petschel referenced potential avenues that could be taken by them noting the lawsuit or the possibilities of taking it public, politically, as a Part 150 process. She stated that whether their support is in the form of media, a lawsuit or politically, their approach has to be determined carefully due to the potential for negative impacts. Commissioner Roszak referenced the internal mechanisms of the Metropolitan Airport Commission and the continued efforts to make them see the error stating that the Metropolitan Airport Commission's decision could be based on public policy. He asked clarification of their efforts based on public policy. Administrative Assistant Hollister referenced Mr. Heide’s presentation and the language for DNL noting that Mr. Heide explained that both have to be treated equally, with no preference shown to either group. He stated that the language alone does not dictate that the Metropolitan Airport Commission cannot give preference based on chronological sequence. He explained that his understanding of Mr. Heide's statement to mean that they have to do it and do it the same for everyone noting that he did not mention sequence. He referenced the September vote stating that not all would receive the same package that the remaining would receive a watered down version. Commissioner Roszak explained that is the third party beneficiary and that this is an individual remedy with no consequence to the Commission. Commissioner Edstrom asked if there was anything that references “as money is available”. He stated that they couldn't make large commitments without funding. He stated that they should also provide a chronological timeline for completion based on funding. Commissioner Petschel noted that they were pretty much done with the 65’s and were now moving on to the 60’s. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted that they could be accused of being slow adding that they have not officially abandoned all of the 60 people. Commissioner Roszak noted that this is all irrelevant, as this is an individual issue with the Metropolitan Airport Commission. Commissioner Petschel stated that they agreed to be careful when they decided to invite Mr. Heide and Mr. Kosel to the meeting. She asked the Committee to consider what they are going to do now, now that they have invited them and heard their issues. Commissioner Roszak explained that this is not a public policy consideration stating that it is an individual consideration with a strong focus on the validity of the map. Commissioner Petschel agreed that their focus should be on the validity of the map. Commissioner Roszak suggested gathering as much information as can be provided on the issue, present the findings to the City Council and ask the Council for the authority to Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission meet and work with the Metropolitan Airport Commission to determine the validity of the allegations. Commissioner Edstrom referenced the letters included in the meeting packets from Mike Kosel and asked about the responses to Mr. Kosel. City Administrator Lindberg stated that responses were included and reviewed their contents with the Commission. City Administrator Lindberg asked when the information on the heat and humidity index came about. Commissioner Petschel stated it came about in 1992 or 1993. Chair Beaty referenced the Part 150 manual adding that it has all of the information referenced including the heat and humidity issues. 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Commissioner Fitzer acknowledged all the work the Rogers Lake group has been doing and referenced the report that they want and asked if the City could come up with the funding to retain a copy of the report. He stated that it would be a good reference document for the City and they could provide the Rogers Lake group with the opportunity to use the document as a reference. City Administrator Lindberg agreed with Commissioner Fitzer and stated that they would get a copy of the report. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they would review their document files prior to requesting a copy of the report. Commissioner Roszak asked if they have a file for all important airport documents. City Administrator Lindberg confirmed that they have a huge file for airport records. Chair Beaty suggested having City Administrator Lindberg or Administrative Assistant Hollister call Mr. Heide to let him know that they are going get a copy of the report for City records and that they would provide them with a copy of the report. City Administrator Lindberg stated that she would be able to approve the request without Council presentation. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that they should get copies of the same documents for their review before endorsing. Commissioner Roszak moved to approve that the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission undertake an ongoing study to determine public policy implications based on materials presented by the Rogers Lake East Noise Reduction Committee and consider submitting an appropriate report to the City Council with recommendations. Commissioner Leuman seconded the motion. AYES: 7 NAYS: 0 Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission City Administrator Lindberg committed to contacting Mr. Heide. She stated that she would also copy the Council on Mr. Heide’s presentation and the responses Mr. Kosel has received. Commissioner Roszak suggested to City Administrator Lindberg that she ask for details on the maps. B. Update on Airport Video Progress City Administrator Lindberg stated that she spoke with Dennis Raftery of NDC/TV and that he reports that Dave Nimmer has now recorded the voice-over for the video. She stated that he did an excellent job and that Mr. Raftery is very optimistic that the video would be completed by the end of this year. She explained that there was some confusion regarding the Metropolitan Airport Commission not allowing the use of the Part 150 in the video and this was proven to be false. Chair Beaty asked where the misunderstanding occurred. Administrative Assistant Hollister explained that the misunderstanding might have come from a conversation that occurred during their tour. City Administrator Lindberg stated that Mr. Raftery would like to meet with two or more of the Commissioners to review the voice over and pictures to ensure accuracy and content. Commissioners' Beaty, Stein and Edstrom volunteered. City Administrator Lindberg committed to coordinating the schedule for the meeting with Mr. Raftery. Commissioner Petschel stated that her husband recently had lunch with Dave Nimmer and that Mr. Nimmer had told him it was a really fun project and enjoyed it very much. 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Chair Beaty suggested writing a letter of thanks to Mr. Nimmer for his time and contributions. Commissioner Petschel stated that she would be willing to write the letter. C. Openings on ARC Commission - City Administrator Lindberg City Administrator Lindberg stated that the terms for Commissioners Fitzer and Stein are ending. She explained that the Commissioners would need to provide the Mayor with a letter of intent as to their continued involvement on the Commissioner. She stated that the letter would then determine an interview. Commissioner Roszak stated that this was the same process he had to go through when he reinstated his second term. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that the letter of intent should not concern them, as this is the process they take for each term that is coming to an end on the Commission. He stated that they are very happy with the work done by all on the Commission and assured them not to be concerned, as it is the process. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: a. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated November 20, 2001. b. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Roy Fuhrmann, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated November 28, 2001. c. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated November 30, 2001. d. Metropolitan Airports Commission September 2001 Minutes and December 2001 Agenda. e. Eagan Airport Relations Commission Agenda for December 3, 2001. f. Airport Noise Reports. OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS Chair Beaty asked the Commission for comments. The Commission discussed their holiday party and confirmed the location and time. Commissioner Stein thanked Staff for putting together the packets prior to the meeting. He stated that he appreciates being able to review the information prior to the meeting. Chair Beaty asked if the City had rescinded the $25.00 payment per meeting. He explained that he had not received payment for some of the meetings and asked for clarification. City Administrator Lindberg clarified that payment is made on a quarterly basis. She stated that she would verify the checks cashed and reissue any checks that had not been received. Chair Beaty stated if there was no further discussion he would move to adjourn. The Commission had no further comments. ADJOURN Chair adjourned by Executive Fiat. 2001-12-12 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] AYES: 7 NAYS: 0 The meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Commission Meeting - December 12, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.