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2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES October 10, 2001 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, October 10 2001, in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Ellsworth Stein, Liz Petschel, Joseph Leuman, John Roszak and Vern Edstrom. Staff present: City Administrator Carrie Lindberg, Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioners Gregg Fitzer. MINUTES Commissioner Leuman moved to approve the August 15, 2001 minutes. Commissioner Edstrom seconded the motion. AYES: 4 NAYS: 0 Presentation None Unfinished/New Business A. Filming of ARC Meeting by NDC-TV Filming of the ARC meeting took place during the Item B Update on Airport Noise Video Progress. B. Update on Airport Noise Video Progress Chair Beaty opened the meeting noting that they would be filming a portion of the meeting tonight. He referenced his presentation to the Council and asked if everyone was ready. City Administrator Lindberg stated that Chair Beaty gave a great presentation at the Council Meeting adding that tonight would be the first piece of filming. She confirmed Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission that the City Council is very pleased with the project and believes it will be a quality product. Chair Beaty stated that things, so far, have gone quite well. He noted that they have only spent about $1200.00 on the project. He referenced the list being sent to the MAC and clarified the information they are requesting for the project. Commissioner Leuman noted that the MAC has been very cooperative. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that a meeting is scheduled for next Tuesday, October 16, 2001, with Mike Kosel and Roy Fuhrman. He stated that he and City Administrator Lindberg would also be in attendance. City Administrator Lindberg noted that Mr. Kosel is disappointed with the meeting noting that his preference was to meet with Chad Leqve. She explained that Mr. Kosel has never 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] officially approached the Council with the issue, adding that it is not a recognized issue therefore the City cannot take a stance. Commissioner Petschel noted that Chair Beaty briefed the Council on the issues and asked the Council to give some support to this particular neighborhood. Chair Beaty clarified that part of their role here is to help and assist the citizens. He acknowledged that the approach taken has not been the most productive but that the Residents are asking for help. He expressed his concerns and asked if there is a larger advocacy role that could be taken by ARC. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they have taken steps to assist. He explained that the support has not, to this point, been in an advocacy role but they have been working to coordinate between the neighborhoods and the MAC. He referenced the Part 150 meeting that he did attend. He stated that both Mr. Leqve and Mr. Fuhrman are very busy and they were able to find time to provide a presentation to the Citizens. He explained that a forum was provided that facilitated the communication between the neighborhood and the MAC and it would not be fair to say that nothing has been done to address their concerns. City Administrator Lindberg asked Chair Beaty if he agrees with Mr. Kosel. Chair Beaty stated that the Residents have legitimate concerns regarding the air noise adding that it is ARC’s role to address these concerns. He asked the Commission for ideas and suggested that ARC write the letters requesting the noise measurement equipment on behalf of the Residents. Commissioner Petschel asked if the Commission had any suggestions as to what more they could do to support the Residents. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Edstrom noted Chair Beaty's suggestion and that this could be a part of what they, as an advisory group, could do for the Residents. Chair Beaty asked if they could directly ask MAC for assistance that could include new windows or insulation for the homes. He asked, if they had written the letters, with a different tone, would they have received the same response from the MAC. City Administrator Lindberg confirmed that the MAC response would have been the same. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated there were two major setbacks in the City with respect to insulation and Part 150 program. He explained that those who had qualified no longer do adding that Mr. Kosel and his group have no chance of approval. He stated that next Tuesday they would have an opportunity to pose these questions to Mr. Fuhrman and it is possible he might have suggestions for the Residents. City Administrator Lindberg suggested that this could be done in a phone call and offered to contact Mr. Fuhrman to discuss these issues. Administrative Assistant Hollister pointed out that the Mayor is also a member of this neighborhood and is copied on all correspondence. City Administrator Lindberg stated that she did have a discussion with the Mayor regarding the meeting next week. She stated that the Mayor was not pleased with some of the quotes in Mr. Kosel’s letters and felt some of the things said were taken out of context. She explained that when Mr. Kosel referenced the Mayor it could be due to his involvement with MASAC. Commissioner Petschel asked if the Mayor has had any conversations with Mr. Kosel. Administrative Assistant Hollister confirmed that the Mayor has communicated several 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] times with Mr. Kosel via mail and telephone. Commissioner Petschel noted that the only individuals they are willing to seriously look at are those who have sound proofing in the north, south, east and west, the normal POP group. Administrative Assistant Hollister suggested that the group allow City Administrator Lindberg and himself the time to discuss the issues with Mr. Fuhrman first and then go forward from there. City Administrator Lindberg stated that the meeting provided by Mr. Fuhrman did not meet Mr. Kosels' needs and reviewed his expectations for the upcoming meeting. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that another problem is that most don’t understand what DNL means which in turn creates misunderstandings with respect to the contours and the averages. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Petschel asked how long Mr. Kosel has lived in the area. She stated that when she moved here in 1987 the planes were everywhere and there was more noise. She acknowledged the changes since 1987 and that it appears to be more orderly. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that Mr. Kosel has lived in the area for approximately 15 years. Commissioner Leuman noted that since the late 1980’s the corridor has widened to accommodate the increased traffic. Chair Beaty referenced the contours and asked for clarification on what could be done if the Residents are correct in what they are saying regarding the contours. He referenced the ANOMS information adding that what if it isn’t accurate, what could they do to support their concerns. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that Mr. Kosel did state in a letter that if they are not going to provide the meters, that they make them available with the software and technical requirements so that they could have a consultant do the testing. Chair Beaty noted Mr. Kosel’s request for funding. Commissioner Petschel asked how much the meters cost. Administrative Assistant Hollister referenced NSP's application for a Conditional Use Permit adding that they requested that NSP insulate some of the transformers, add the berm and additional trees noting that this helped considerably. He explained that the costs were approximately $100,000 for the improvements. He further explained that the City hired a consultant. He suggested that Mr. Kosel could hire a qualified Acoustical Engineer noting that even if the data isn’t compatible or conforming to the MAC process, it would give Mr. Kosel and his neighbors the documentation they need. Chair Beaty asked the group for suggestions as to what they could do to take an active role to assist this neighborhood. Commissioner Petschel suggested City Council involvement and suggested ARC provide a recommendation to the Council for their assistance with the MAC. City Administrator Lindberg suggested that they wait to see how the meeting scheduled for Tuesday, October 16, 2001 turns out. She stated that they could move forward based on the results of this meeting with Mr. Kosel and Mr. Fuhrman. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked for clarification on the process when ARC has 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] taken an official position in the past and have they always sought Council blessings or do they move forward without Council. Commissioner Roszak arrived at 7:15 p.m. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty clarified that they have never moved forward without approaching Council first. He stated that as a Commission there is something they should do but he needs assistance from the group in determining the process. He stated that he does not have an answer other than recommending to the Council that there be some form of City assistance for this group of Citizens. He stated that there is more that could be done and acknowledged that the answer could still be no but to at least try. Administrative Assistant Hollister suggested that the Commission add this as an item to the November ARC agenda for a formal recommendation. He explained that this would allow him and City Administrator Lindberg the time to meet with Mr. Kosel, Mr. Fuhrman, and ARC and to brainstorm options that could be presented to the Commission and then the Council. He suggested not making any decisions until after next week's meeting. Commissioner Roszak stated that they function as an advisory board and agreed with Chair Beaty's suggestion to approach the Council for support. Administrative Assistant Hollister suggested contacting former MASAC members or others within the POP group to determine if others have successfully challenged the MAC on the contours. Commissioner Stein arrived at 7:20 p.m. Commissioner Roszak asked if the contours were computer generated. Commissioner Petschel confirmed that they are computer generated adding that this is why Mr. Kosel is asking for the software and that the ANOM is a portion of the information that they feed for final results. Chair Beaty asked if Mr. Kosel's group could formally request that they be shown the methodology and calculations to determine the contours. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted that at several of the MASAC/OPs meetings there were several consultants in attendance that were updating their systems on the contour computations and noted they were challenging the methodology. Chair Beaty suggested that they wait for the results from the meeting next Tuesday before moving forward. Administrative Assistant Hollister reviewed the issues, his discussions with Mr. Fuhrman, and that he would follow up with each of the groups for further clarification of the issues. He stated that he would check on the availability of the software and report back to the group with his findings. He acknowledged that this is public information but also stated that they have the right to charge for the information they provide. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty asked if they could check on availability of outside consultants. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that would check on availability of consultants to assist the group in the their testing. Commissioner Leuman stated that they need to be sure that whatever they do for Mr. Kosel can be done for other Residents. City Administrator Lindberg clarified the process they could take prior to meeting with 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] the MAC and reviewed the items discussed. She stated that there has been little comment from the Council noting that they have not been formally asked for their support. Chair Beaty suggested providing a recommendation to the Council. Administrative Assistant Hollister restated that two items have caused damage to the insulation efforts. He further stated that the impacts felt from the September 11 attack are all due to financial constraints and the Hush Kit aircraft. He stated that Mendota Heights is in favor of the north\south runway. He stated that he did not think a formal motion was needed for the discussion. Administrative Assistant Hollister referenced the Ellsworth neighborhood and the "mystery developer" stating that the "mystery developer" has pulled out. He stated that Tollefson has a purchase agreement with the Akesha property and they would be going to Council with a preliminary plan for townhomes in this development. He stated that the Mayor wants single-family homes in this development and referenced the issues that came up during the discussion with the American Lung Association. City Administrator Lindberg stated that they did receive a letter from the "mystery developer" informing the City that due to financial constraints they were no longer interested in developing this area. Commissioner Stein clarified that there are approximately 39 Residents in this neighborhood and 85% of the Residents were in favor of the development. City Administrator Lindberg confirmed that the MAC would formally protest the City if this were to go forward. Administrative Assistant Hollister reviewed the issues stating that they could ask Council if the City would be on board with Tollefson if the MAC does resist. Commissioner Edstrom asked what the City is going to do. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that the Mayor wants housing in the area but he is not sure where the rest of the Council sits on this issue. Commissioner Roszak asked for clarification on the power of MAC and asked if they could stop the development. Commissioner Petschel clarified the City requirements with Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission respect to specifications and the MAC. She acknowledged that this is not a well-known, established developer and it would be a difficult and expensive fight. Administrative Assistant Hollister explained that they would like to build a Native American Cultural Center on this property or leave it bare as it is a historical site and is considered to be sacred ground. He stated that in the Akesha Cemetery there is a plaque commemorating the site as the location where the government bought the land that is now Minnesota from the Dakota tribe. He clarified that they have not claimed this as a burial ground or a site for artifacts. Commissioner Stein asked if Mr. Kosel knew that he could possibly get a free noise meter from NPCA. He stated that he was not sure if this was still possible but it would be worth checking. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that he would check on the possibilities with NPCA. Commissioner Petschel clarified that the issue here is not to do the ANOM or yearlong study but to get an independent consultant in to determine criteria, test, and do a comparison. She again suggested that an independent expert review the data. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that if they hire an independent consultant and 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] the expense is considerable, by rights, if the MAC refuses to pay, the City would have to bear the costs. He suggested talking to neighboring cities to see if they would be willing to contribute to the cost. He suggested determining how broad the scope should be and then approach neighboring cities to determine their willingness to assist in the costs as this process would be a benefit for all cities in the area. Commissioner Petschel noted that another of Mr. Kosel’s issues is that the planes are turning earlier into the runway and this is not being reflected in the noise contours. She stated that Mr. Kosel does not believe that the contour assessment is reflecting the early turn. Commissioner Stein asked if there is possibly anything else that Mr. Kosel might want that the Commission is not aware of yet. Commissioner Roszak confirmed that they would be able to determine that through the process and identification of the criteria. Administrative Assistant Hollister confirmed that to everyone’s recollection this situation has not happened before. Chair Beaty stated that they have had complaints and people have approached the Commission but it has never been taken this far before. Commissioner Petschel asked what percentage the airport is operating at right now. Chair Beaty stated that Northwest is at 40%. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted that it would be 25% for the next two to three years and the big issue now is the federal standards for training. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Petschel stated that they are now saying that in the future the FAA, as it is known today, in governing both Commerce and Safety, would not be the same in the future as they have "dropped the ball." She referenced a conversation she had with a friend of hers who is a pilot. She stated that she had asked him what kind of changes he would like to see and she reviewed his suggestions with the Commission. Administrative Assistant Hollister referenced the issues regarding terrorism and our reactions in the air noting that the analysis would involve studying previous hijackings. He asked how do you stop someone who wants to die. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: a. Notice of Cancellation of August 28, 2001 MASAC Meeting b. Notice of Cancellation of September 25, 2001 MASAC Meeting c. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated August 16, 2001 d. Letter from Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission to Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee, dated August 22, 2001 e. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated August 31, 2001 f. Letter from Michael A. Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated September 12, 2001 g. Metropolitan Airports Commission 2002-2008 Capital Improvements Program h. Reconvening of the WCF Joint Airport Zoning Board i. Metropolitan Airports Commission Planning and Environment Committee 2001-10-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:45 PM] Agenda for October 2, 2001 j. Eagan Airports Relations Commission Agenda for September 11, 2001 k. Airport Noise Reports l. Metropolitan Airport Commission letter to Mike Kosel dated October 2, 2001. m. Agenda, Regular Meeting Eagan Airport Relations Commission dated October 9, 2001. n. Airport Noise Report, Volume 13, Number 33, dated October 5, 2001. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated no news or changes to the items listed above. Commission Meeting - October 10, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS Chair Beaty asked the Commission for comments. Chair Beaty stated if there was no further discussion he would move to adjourn. The Commission had no further comments. ADJOURN Chair adjourned by Executive Fiat. AYES: 6 NAYS: 0 The meeting adjourned at 8:29 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.