2001-06-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2001-06-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:31:43 PM]
CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES June 13, 2001 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, June 13, 2001, in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria
Curve. The meeting was called to order at 7:10 p.m.
The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Liz Petschel, John Roszak, and
Vern Edstrom. Staff present: Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister, City Administrator Cari Lindberg and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not present: Commissioners Ellsworth Stein, Gregg Fitzer and Joseph Leuman. The following Residents were present: Mike Kosel, 888 Bluebill Drive, Ric Hughes,
2308 Swan Drive, Guy Heide, 881 Bluebill Drive, and Michael Roth, 849 Cheri Lane.
MINUTES
Chair Beaty asked that a correction be made in the minutes for page 1, Mike Kosel's comments, change “he contacted Scott Bowman” to “he contacted Scott Beaty.” Commissioner Roszak moved to approve the May 9, 2001 minutes as corrected. Commissioner Edstrom seconded the motion.
AYES: 4 NAYS: 0
Presentation
Metropolitan Airport Commission Presentation and Discussion New Runway and ANOMS Meter Presented by MAC Representatives, Roy Fuhrman and Chad Leqve Chair Beaty stated that at recent meetings of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission several residents of the Rogers Lake neighborhood approached the Commission regarding the possibilities of placing an ANOMS noise meter in their
neighborhood. He reviewed the boundaries of the neighborhood with the Commission
stating they discussed the possibilities with MAC representatives, Roy Fuhrman and
Chad Leqve. He stated that Mr. Fuhrman and Mr. Leqve are present to provide an update
on the new runway and to address the request for the ANOMS meter. Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Roy Fuhrman, Metropolitan Airport Commission, stated that he and Chad Leqve are present to provide the Commission with a presentation update of the new runway, airport operations and the 2001 budget for the Minneapolis\St. Paul Airport. Chad Leqve, Metropolitan Airport Commission, presented the update on the new runway
at the Minneapolis\St. Paul Airport to the Commission and Residents. He reviewed the
existing and future airport facilities, noise mitigation efforts, MSP Part 150 Residential
Insulation Program status and update that included the 17 noise mitigation measures, the
10 land use measures and the mechanism for evaluating noise impacts. He explained the integrated Noise Model (INM), ANOMS and Remote Monitoring Towers location process to the Commission. He gave an overview of the MASAC reorganization and website (www.macabcat.org) to the Commission. Mr. Leqve provided a breakdown and review of the three noise mitigation items associated with the Land Use Measures, the Runway Use System, Noise Abatement
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Departure Profiles and Low Demand Flight Tracks in the Mendota Heights Departure Corridor. He stated that Part 150 is a Federal Aviation Regulation that was put in place for airport operators to develop noise compatibility programs. He reviewed the histories and procedures that were put in place that operators go through to develop compatibility programs approved by the FAA. He stated that this metric has been adopted by the
Federal Aviation Administration and Department of Defense, PUD and other
organizations as an accurate model and representation of noise impact around an airport.
He explained that the FAA looks at 65 DNL contour as the area that is eligible for noise
mitigation. He stated this is a part of the 150 proposal. He stated the DNL metric has been extensively evaluated and endorsed by the EPA, FAA and FICON. Mr. Leqve reviewed the ANOMS process stating that they use the actual flight data as a part of the measurement process. He referenced the Aircraft Noise database and Aircraft Noise Levels, FAR Part 36 and reviewed the requirements. He reviewed the changes in the aircraft and the upgrade schedule with the Council. He reviewed the 2000 noise
footprint around the MSP Airport and a 2005 forecast of the noise footprint around the
MSP Airport.
Michael Roth, Resident, referenced the new stage aircraft and the older aircraft used at the MSP Airport. He asked for clarification on the increase in traffic at the MSP Airport and how much more can be anticipated in the next 10 years. He stated that there are several fleets out of the MSP Airport and asked for further clarification on the upgrade schedule. He referenced a point made by Mr. Leqve to maximize Mendota Heights and asked for further clarification regarding updates and additions to the extensions and contours.
Mr. Leqve explained the process they use in forecasting the frequency of operations. He
stated that they are presently reviewing the forecast for 2005 and beyond. He
acknowledged that the airport is growing and pointed out the positive trends with respect Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission to noise levels. He reviewed the items that they are required to use to develop the noise level profiles at the airport. Mr. Leqve reviewed the Airport Noise Operations Monitoring System (ANOMS) functions, process and information it can provide through its reporting capabilities with
the Commission. He reviewed the specific noise event and summary noise event
information with the Commission and Residents.
Mr. Kosel referenced the Map 3-20 and asked for a copy. Mr. Leqve stated that the map is included in the information packet and it is also available on the website. Mr. Leqve reviewed the ANOMS coverage areas, the process they take to locate the tower locations. He reviewed the three primary criteria used, primary location, previous RMT
location methodology and RMT Buffer Assumptions.
Mr. Kosel asked for the area measurement.
Mr. Leqve stated the area measures approximately 2883 meters. He explained the actual coverage area and buffers presently in place. He stated that they are being supplied with monitoring coverage. He asked for clarification on the intent of the Residents and what they hoped for from this meeting. Ric Hughes, Resident, expressed his concerns regarding the ANOMS measurement
equipment and whether it would be placed in their area. He stated that they do not agree
with the decibel level that has been given to the Bluebill Drive area. He stated that they
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could be in the 65-decibel area and they missed being included by 100 feet. He clarified his understanding of the PFC funding process. Mr. Leqve clarified the 65-decibel areas and explained that the issues raised by the Residents are not with the Metropolitan Airport Commission. He stated that the PFC’s
are subject to Federal approval.
Mr. Kosel referenced information he received from the Federal government. He
expressed his concerns that Minnesota is not participating in the noise level funding for projects and asked for further clarification. Mr. Leqve reviewed the process they need to take to determine prioritization of the mitigation funding. He referenced previous conversations and acknowledged his understanding of the issues identified by Mr. Kosel.
Mr. Fuhrman reviewed the nighttime airport operations with the Residents. He clarified
the differences in sound levels between day and evening. He reviewed the percentage of
operations during daytime hours versus nighttime operations. He explained that the FAA Commission
Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission recognizes and endorses the DNL metric and 65 contour adding that MSP recognizes the 60 contour. Chair Beaty asked if there are any areas in the country that have done any type of creative thinking to help communities resolve noise impact.
Joyce Selg, Resident, asked for clarification on how they measure a City block in the
suburbs stating that it is not an accurate measurement for a block in the suburbs. She
reviewed the frequency of noise at various times of the evening and early morning. She
expressed her frustrations regarding the lack of understanding and help from the various groups involved. Commissioner Petschel asked for clarification on the close-in and distant departure. She referenced the distant departure as a mitigation issue and stated that they were lobbying for the testing of distant departure. She referenced the studies they reviewed and asked for clarification. She referenced the MASAC minutes, notes and study stating that they
indicate that distant departure is a mitigating issue. She asked why, if the study is correct
and distant departure is much more mitigating, MSP is still utilizing distant departure.
She asked what the protocol would be as it compares to now and how binding is it to the
environmental impact. Mr. Leqve clarified that they would be using distant departure for all of MSP. He confirmed this is a part of the present proposal. He stated the first priority is to maximize the corridor and the second priority is runway R1-75. He reviewed the runway use theme and the historical procedures they took to determine how frequently the corridor procedure is used with the Commission. He stated that they did find disparities between
what was said and what was actually used. He explained the analysis process they took to
review the data.
Commissioner Petschel asked if they have any statistics or facts on how frequently the corridor procedure is used. She asked if they have noticed an increase in departures from the north. Mr. Kosel referred to the runway flight patterns noting the differences in various areas and asked why the maps aren’t more accurate in reflecting the sound pattern.
Chair Beaty clarified Mr. Kosel's statements stating that there is a 15-degree separation
because they can’t take off parallel. He reviewed the flight tracks over the communities.
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Mr. Leqve reviewed the departures and contours of the runways and the areas for departure and arrival flight track. Mr. Fuhrman reviewed the 2000 contour with the Commission. He discussed the
distance and flight track for the corridor area. He reviewed the operational procedures
and clarified the corridor procedures with the Commission and Residents. Commission Meeting - June 13,
2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
Mr. Kosel referenced the new maps and reviewed the runways. He suggested taking the new runway out 6 miles, the intermediate runway out 3 miles adding that it should be no more than 15 degrees off and asked if any of this has been considered. He referenced federal studies regarding land and water use measurements and asked for clarification. Mr. Leqve referenced Mr. Kosel's suggestion, reviewed a runway situation in MSP, and
explained the primary runway and corridor. He stated that discussion regarding the
extension of the turnpoints has been a part of this project. He stated that it did begin to
infringe on the runway rights at the airport. A Resident asked if the FAA is aware that
they are sending planes out at 46 seconds per aircraft. Mr. Fuhrman reviewed Part 150 stating that there were multiple issues identified. He stated that it came down to two critical issues: runway capacity and noise. Chair Beaty confirmed that capacity would win out over any other issue, as it is a safety issue.
Mr. Leqve stated that as an Airport Operator they are provided a set of criteria that the
Federal government provides. He reviewed the variety of information and reports they
provide on their website and encouraged the Commission and Residents to visit the site. Mr. Kosel asked for clarification of the function of the Metropolitan Municipal Caucus. Mr. Leqve stated that the intent of the Metropolitan Municipal Caucus is to keep the Communities together and "in the loop."
Mr. Heide asked for clarification on the flight close-in and distant-out procedures. He
referenced the map dealing with unmitigated NADP and asked if they were counting it
twice. He inquired whether they asked planes to follow close-in procedures or distant-out
NADP procedures when they did the original footprint and whether the actual sound measurements were based on close-in or distant-out NADP. Mr. Leqve stated the maps in the presentation are “what if” scenarios and explained the process and purpose. He reviewed the actual sound measurement process. He stated that the 2000 actual was distant-out NADP.
Mr. Kosel asked for clarification on jurisdiction stating that the FAA regulated the MSP
Airport until approximately 1987 adding that at that time the jurisdiction was then turned
over to the MAC. He stated that since the fall of 1989 there has been considerable
changes. Mr. Leqve stated operation of the airport is under the jurisdiction of the airport control manager. Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Mr. Fuhrman explained that they control the operations of the airport, the FAA tower has jurisdiction as the plane's taxi to and from the airport. He reviewed the areas of control
and responsibilities for the FAA and the MAC.
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Chair Beaty stated that there has been an increased use of the runways since 1989. Mr. Fuhrman reviewed the history of the operations and introduction timeframe for various aircraft. He discussed the requirements for takeoff for various aircraft and how it affects the takeoff process.
Chair Beaty asked if there is anything, from their perspective, that Mendota Heights can
do to try and resolve some of the issues that have been discussed. He asked if they have
any suggestions as to what they can do to help the community. Mr. Kosel explained the boundaries of the Rogers Lake East Neighborhood. He stated that approximately 20 neighbors on the edge of the neighborhood have received the benefits of the insulation program and are no longer concerned about the noise impact. He requested that they place a noise meter in the area to measure the sound levels in their neighborhood. He stated their intent is to show that they are beyond the 65-decibel range.
He stated all they want is to prove their point and they would work with the information
provided.
Mr. Leqve stated his understanding to the Residents. He stated that they couldn’t do anything about the results. Mr. Fuhrman stated that even if a monitor is installed, in order to come up with a fair assessment it would have to be out there for at least a year. He stated he did not know the expectations of the Residents and expressed his concerns. He stated that before relocating a monitor they would consider placing a mobile monitor in the area. He stated
he believes what they are experiencing today is not what it will be in 2005. He restated
his understanding of Mr. Kosels’ concerns. He stated that they would review and provide
the information to the community via the ARC.
Commissioner Petschel clarified the computer projection flights with respect to percentage of flights and asked if the FAA is involved in enforcing the environmental impact percentages. Mr. Fuhrman clarified the runway configurations and the process they took to determine the percentages for Commissioner Petschel.
Commissioner Roszak asked for clarification on the 1988 statutes.
Chair Beaty explained his understanding of the percentages and referenced GPS. He stated that the area affected is small and referenced the Rogers Lake neighborhood. Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Mr. Leqve stated that there will be huge implementations and explained the technology and cultural changes that need to occur before the full affects of GPS could be realized. Mr. Fuhrman proposed that if they could get to a 10-degree separation versus a 15-degree
separation, this would close the fan more. He noted, however, that there are those who
will disagree and want the 15-degree separation. He stated that when this time comes, it
would put one community against another and the FAA states you cannot shift from one
community to another to reduce the noise. Mr. Roth asked about the life cycles of the aircraft. Mr. Leqve stated that the cycle is a factor in determining the age and life of the aircraft and confirmed that there are regimented evaluations of the aircraft. He stated that because of this, there has been extensive maintenance, upgrades and overhauls of the
aircraft to the point that the aircraft in use today isn’t the same original plane.
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Commissioner Edstrom asked if there is a specific altitude that they can go to advance power settings to abate the noise. Mr. Fuhrman confirmed they do have altitude requirements and reviewed the distant-out procedures with the Commission.
Mr. Roth stated that the contour levels and reports are deceiving and expressed his
concerns regarding the contour issues. He acknowledged the information provided by
Mr. Leqve and Mr. Fuhrman adding that it would take seven years to see the results. He asked for clarification on the definition for wheels up. Mr. Leqve stated that the airlines have expressed their concerns regarding the MSP airport and what they are doing with respect to DNL, low-noise levels etc. Chair Beaty called a five-minute break at 9:25 p.m.
Chair Beaty called the meeting back to order at 9:30 p.m.
Airport Video Update Chair Beaty stated that at the May 9, 2001 meeting of the Airport Relations Commission, the Commissioners reviewed the draft script of the airport noise issues video. He stated that the Commissioners recommended revisions to the script and the changes have been incorporated into the draft by scriptwriter Lisa Bartels-Rabb. He provided the Commission with a copy of the current script and reviewed the changes.
Chair Beaty suggested they find two people from the committee to work on the video and
stated it is his hope that the MAC would review the information and video shots for
further input and information to be included. Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Administrative Assistant Hollister reviewed the conversations he had with the Cable Company. He stated it was his understanding that a subcommittee would meet with NBC TV to discuss and determine what this video will involve. He stated their intent is that this video will have an educational value.
Commissioner Petschel explained the information and format of the video.
Mr. Fuhrman commended the group for taking on the task of the video. He stated if they are looking for specific information, they would be willing to assist them in identifying individuals and provide information that would help the process. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they are at liberty to use excerpts from the video as long as credit is given to the MAC. He suggested the use of past tense reference to avoid dating the material.
Chair Beaty referenced page one statements and suggested they should avoid dating the
material as much as possible.
City Administrator Lindberg asked the Commission for feedback on the recommended subcommittee format. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that the July ARC meeting was postponed to July 18, 2001.
Chair Beaty and Commissioners Petschel and Edstrom volunteered for the subcommittee.
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Chair Beaty asked that Administrative Assistant Hollister and City Administrator Lindberg assist in the setup of the meetings for the subcommittee. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE
The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents:
a. Notice of Cancellation of May 11, 2001 MASAC Operations Committee
Meeting. b. Notice of Cancellation of May 22, 2001 MASAC Meeting. c. Notice of Cancellation of June 8, 2001 MASAC Operations Committee Meeting. d. Memorandum from Minneapolis Mayor Sharon Sayles Belton dated May 9, 2001: to Senator Pogemiller and Representative Abrams regarding noise impacted communities adjacent to Minneapolis-St.Paul.
e. Agenda for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, Planning and
Environment Committee Regular Meeting for June 5, 2001. Commission Meeting - June 13, 2001 Mendota
Heights Airport Relations Commission
f. Agenda for the Regular Meeting of the Eagan Airport Relations Commission for May 8, 2001. g. City Pages Article: “The Sound and the Fury”, June 6, 2001. h. Airport Noise Reports. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated no news or changes to the items listed above. OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS
Chair Roszak asked the Commission for comments.
Chair Roszak stated if there was no further discussion he would move to adjourn. The Commission had no further comments. ADJOURN Chair adjourned by Executive Fiat.
AYES: 4
NAYS: 0
The meeting adjourned at 10:14 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.