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2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES November 13, 2002 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 7:00 p.m., in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights, Minnesota. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Liz Petschel, Vern Edstrom, Ellsworth Stein and John Roszak. Staff present: Cari Lindberg, City Administrator, Council Member Jack Vitelli, NOC Representative, and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioners Joseph Leuman and Gregg Fitzer; Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister. Chair Beaty announced that Council Member Sandra Krebsbach would be attending the meetings as an alternate representative for the NOC along with Council Member Vitelli. He asked Council Member Vitelli for an update. Council Member Vitelli stated that the NOC has not met formally yet and that he does not have an update at this time. He stated that he has met with several members and reviewed his discussions with the Commission. Commissioner Petschel stated that they have a copy of the Environmental Impact Statement on file with the new runway changes. She stated that they asked Mr. Leqve if any of the percentages would change as stated in Environmental Impact. She said that he told them there would be no changes. She said that Mr. Leqve explained that the only changes in the document would involve the nautical turn. City Administrator Lindberg stated that she spoke with Mayor regarding the Third Parallel runway contract and that he is willing to sign the agreement now. The MAC Commission has to approve the agreement first. Chair Beaty reviewed the Minneapolis agreement with the Commission stating that they would probably approve it. He explained that this is their third attempt at the contract. Commissioner Roszak asked for clarification on the number of MAC positions open for replacement. Chair Beaty stated that he is not sure of the numbers and whether the Governor would be able to appoint new members or not. Council Member Krebsbach also asked if he could appoint at will or only when a term is up. Chair Beaty explained that he would appoint by term. Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Roszak asked if the Commission should consider endorsing a candidate. Council Member Krebsbach stated that they have done this with the Met Council through a resolution. She explained they had done a resolution supporting noting it would not hurt to support someone for representation. Chair Beaty stated that it was always their goal to have a representative on the MAC. He further stated that a representative from Mendota Heights could be very beneficial for their area of concerns. Commissioner Petschel asked how they feel about the job Bert Mckasy is doing and if he would be a good candidate to support. She reviewed various issues that Mr. Mckasy has facilitated noting that she does not know what kind of advocate he is in meetings when representing the residents. 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] Chair Beaty suggested that City Administrator Lindberg look into the process and asked Council Members Vitelli and Krebsbach to get a feel for Mr. McKasy’s level of interest. Chair Beaty asked if Council Member Vitelli has met with the Rogers Lake Group. Council Member Vitelli stated that he met with Mr. Kosel and that Mr. Kosel did show him the placement of the sound meters in the area. Council Member Krebsbach stated that she spoke with Mr. Anderson recently and that a response to the Rogers Lake East group was sent, via registered mail. Commissioner Petschel referenced the document and expressed her concerns stating that the document is bullying and belittling. She referenced several paragraphs as examples and reviewed with the Commission. Council Member Krebsbach expressed disagreement stating that she felt that they handled the response very well and with professional restraint. Commissioner Petschel stated that there is nothing in the letter that refutes their allegations or denies them noting that it is all a matter of interpretation. Chair Beaty asked Council Member Vitelli for feedback from Rogers Lake. Council Member Vitelli stated that their concerns are with respect to memo costs and libelous actions. He stated that they are continuing to move forward with caution with respect to terminology. He further stated that they are happy with the opportunity to discuss their issues with the MAC. Commissioner Petschel stated that the portion she has issue with is the number of operations off the end of Runway 4-22 noting that this was not addressed in the letter. She noted the potential affects for Mendota Heights and reviewed them with the Commission. Commissioner Roszak acknowledged that there are no legal remedies noting that there is, however, the option for political remedies. Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Council Member Krebsbach clarified that the argument is the assumptions stating that the way they ran the model is not correct. She explained that they came up with a resolution to help Bloomington and that the resolution adversely affected Mendota Heights. Commissioner Petschel stated that the lawyer for MAC never addressed the actual issues nor did they address the issue of Runway 4-22. She noted the monthly Technical Reports stating that the amount of time and operations off Runway 4-22 are not matching up with the predictions and asked if they would make an adjustment. Commissioner Edstrom clarified that the facts are that Rogers Lake should have been approved for insulation and they were not and the Bloomington area was approved and should not have been. He stated that the issue now is how do they resolve this problem. Chair Beaty asked what do they do now and where do they go with this letter. He expressed concerns stating that his fear is what would they be dealing with when they open the north/south runway and they see 12-15 percent in flight activity when it should be 8 percent. He asked how they would be held accountable for their commitments. Commissioner Edstrom asked for an update on the letter being prepared for the Mayor's signature. City Administrator Lindberg stated that Mr. Heide had prepared a letter for Council's review noting that it was too strong. She explained that the Council asked for certain statements to be removed and that they had the City Attorney review. She stated that the letter is being redrafted and would be presented for Council review. Council Member Krebsbach stated that she would like to see sheet of facts that includes information regarding the issues, without comments, noting that they could utilize the 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] document as a fact sheet. Commissioner Petschel stated that Mr. Heide has a copy that is part of his presentation and suggested that she contact him for a copy. Chair Beaty stated they, as a Commission, need to be very careful and asked Council Members Vitelli and Krebsbach, to stay on top of the issues. He stated that they need to make sure the contract is signed and that EIS sticks with the 8% flight traffic forecast when the new runway opens. Council Member Krebsbach asked if it was 8% of an increased pool. Chair Beaty confirmed stating that they had worked out the figures noting that it is a large increase. Commissioner Edstrom noted the geographic distances of the runway stating that they would be at a higher altitude coming over Mendota Heights from new runway versus Runway 12. Chair Beaty noted that adding the runway was supposed to reduce the flights off from Runway 12 and reviewed the percentages with Commission. Commissioner Roszak referenced Council Member Krebsbach's point regarding accountability stating that this should be a key criterion in determining a candidate for their endorsement. Approval of Minutes Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Approval of the October 9, 2002 minutes. Commissioner Edstrom referenced the Rogers Lake East presentation and suggested including the names of people presenting under the Attendees section of the minutes. He referenced page two stating that Mr. Egan’s name is spelled differently twice. Chair Beaty noted last sentence referenced a generator and stated that it should be a monitor. Commissioner Edstrom referenced page five, fourth paragraph, last sentence, should read that they get noise from takeoffs ‘towards’ Minneapolis and Mendota Heights. A motion was made by Commissioner Petschel, seconded by Commissioner Edstrom to approve the minutes as amended. Motion carried 4-0. Unfinished/New Business A. Sandra Krebsbach & Jack Vitelli, NOC Council Member Krebsbach referenced the MSP airport complaints to the City stating that it would be helpful to know what the percentage is for the number of people complaining from each neighborhood. Commissioner Petschel explained that the Technical Report provides the number of complaints and the number of actual individuals who made the complaints. Council Member Krebsbach asked if this speaks to the area. Chair Beaty explained that she could get further information from Mr. Leqve. Council Member Krebsbach asked if it addresses noise over a particular neighborhood. Commissioner Petschel explained that most of the individuals affected by the noise don’t call because they know it is pointless. Council Member Krebsbach referenced the Carrier Jet Operations Runway Report for 2002 and asked if they break it down within the Eagan/Mendota Heights corridor as to which flights are going south and which are going north. Chair Beaty clarified the indicators for Council Member Krebsbach. Council Member Krebsbach referenced the tracking of flight totals and airport volume and asked for further clarification. Chair Beaty stated that they used to have a 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] spreadsheet that took the ANOM report numbers for the total number of takeoffs, arrivals and complaints to try to see actual patterns and reviewed with the Commission. He explained that eventually the report was dropped and is no longer available. Council Member Krebsbach explained that the NOC begins in terms of how data is compiled and reported and asked the Commission for feedback. Commissioner Petschel stated that they have received calls from people that are convinced that they are doing the wheels up-90 degree turn more frequently on departure noting that they are even hearing Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission overflights in the Sylvandale area. She explained that they have identified the end of the runway, the month to month, year to year number of operations and the flight track for the runway. Council Member Krebsbach clarified her understanding that the corridor was supposed to be along Highways 55/494 and reviewed the triangle area and percentages with the Commission. Chair Beaty reviewed the newly defined corridor with the Commission. Council Member Krebsbach stated that in terms of how the corridor was defined they are flying further north. Council Member Krebsbach stated that she would be attending the Community meeting this Friday, November 15, 2002 and that she would also attend most of the NOC meetings with Council Member Vitelli. B. City Administrator Lindberg – The Bluffs Update City Administrator Lindberg stated that they changed the lower portion of the Acacia site. She explained that they are trying to incorporate a more fluid look and reviewed with the Commission. She stated that John Allen provided a deadline with an additional daily cost for each day of delay and that they are anxious to get this approved. Commissioner Stein asked if the count had changed. City Administrator Lindberg stated that the count did decrease in certain areas and reviewed with Commission. City Administrator Lindberg reviewed Council support with the Commission. Council Member Vitelli clarified stating that based on the information they had received that they should move forward with the concept. He stated that there is enough information available to present to the Planning Commission noting that the Commission would probably recommend denial. Commissioner Petschel noted that when Council Member Krebsbach originally spoke to the ARC that her recommendation was industrial quality condominiums stating that this is something they would need to consider. She clarified that what surprised her about this plan is that this site has been marketed as the gateway to Mendota Heights noting that the overall design is poor in terms of architectural eyewash and the view. She expressed concerns stating that the ARC recommendation was not addressed at this meeting and that the backwash of noise from Minneapolis was never mentioned. Chair Beaty clarified that the Commission voted against supporting the area as residential and that it then went to Council for review. He stated that if the Commission wants to pull back that they should state it now otherwise move forward with the original vote. He stated that he is not willing to go back on the vote. He expressed his concerns stating that this is bad policy to put people into a situation like that. City Administrator Lindberg noted that Administrative Assistant Hollister included comments from the ARC that would be forwarded as a part of the document for Council review. Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Petschel asked if it is enough that ARC is on record for recommendation 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] or do they need to address the Planning Commission. Chair Beaty expressed his agreement and asked if they should issue a letter to the Commission. City Administrator Lindberg stated that a letter would be acceptable and noted that their attendance at the meeting is their option. Chair Beaty stated that he would be willing to draft a letter and forward to City Administrator Lindberg to be included with the Planning Commission packet. Commissioner Petschel noted that Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that in terms of tax revenue there is very little difference between placing residential or industrial in this area and asked for further clarification. Chair Beaty clarified stating that many mistakes have been made in the planning process noting that he is not clear on what could be done with respect to zoning. City Administrator Lindberg clarified the reclassification of zoning process for the Commission. C. Airport Plan of Action City Administrator Lindberg reviewed the changes made from the last meeting with the Commission. Chair Beaty stated that in their last discussion they decided to include a form of measurement and suggested that they think of a measurement process as they review each item. He suggested adding action steps as they move through the review. Chair Beaty stated that the first issue is Residential Land Use and asked for feedback. City Administrator Lindberg stated that they have begun this process and reviewed with the Commission. Chair Beaty stated that the action step would be the letter sent to the Planning Commission. City Administrator Lindberg suggested including the City Council in the distribution of the Planning Commission letter. Commissioner Stein agreed stating that the Council should be informed. Council Member Vitelli suggested listing their reasons. Commissioner Roszak clarified that the Council would not need a separate letter that they could just send a carbon copy as an informational. Commissioner Petschel asked when they would submit the new Airport Plan of Action. Chair Beaty stated that it would be in January 2003. Commissioner Petschel suggested providing a presentation on the Airport Relations Commission Plan of Action and to find a better way to communicate what they do. Commissioner Petschel expressed concerns that the Council receives unapproved copies of the ARC minutes. City Administrator Lindberg explained that if they wait until the minutes are approved that the information becomes old news. She further explained that they would like to keep Council current on the issues. Commissioner Petschel expressed concerns that they would read statements that may not carry the correct intent or meaning. Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Stein stated that he would like to include wording that addresses the acquisition, redevelopment and rezoning of key properties. He stated that they also should address eminent domain. He referenced the Furlong area and clarified his understanding that eminent domain can only be exercised by the City. He clarified that they should address the potential of someone buying the property and reselling to a developer. Commissioner Roszak asked if Council periodically reviews the Comprehensive Zoning and clarified his understanding of Commissioner Stein’s concerns. Chair Beaty asked if the Furlong community has curb and gutter. Commissioner Stein explained that most of the residents are happy with the results noting that installation is not completed. He further stated that noise is still an issue. Commissioner Roszak stated that this is a huge 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] policy issue noting that the Mayor and the Council have aligned against the airport dictating land use in the area. Chair Beaty stated that ‘making recommendations to City Council’ should be included under the Rogers Lake East issue. Commissioner Edstrom further clarified it as support versus technical support allowing a broader coverage of issues. Commissioner Stein agreed stating that it should be reviewed on a case by case basis. Chair Beaty suggested considering measurements for the goals. Commissioner Petschel stated that to add measurement to the goals could be difficult noting that their main role is advocacy. Commissioner Petschel referenced Item 3 – effectiveness of the Oversight Committee and asked Council Member Vitelli to share his goals with the Committee. Council Member Vitelli stated that he is still in an information-gathering mode noting that he would be in a better position to answer this question once the NOC meets. City Administrator Lindberg suggested monthly reports from the NOC representatives stating that they would be monitoring activities through their reports at the monthly ARC meetings. Chair Beaty stated that specific action steps could be developed with the NOC throughout the year and that it should be an action step that identifies communication with NOC representatives. He further stated that the action steps could include the Airport Plan of Actions goals and where they need NOC assistance and support. Commissioner Petschel agreed. She stated that they have issues with the reduced capacity upon completion of Runway 17-35 and asked if this is something Council Member Vitelli would be able to advocate. Chair Beaty stated that he has identified several items where the NOC could be of assistance. He stated that there would be several issues that the NOC could be very helpful in addressing or determining alternatives that would not affect capacity and still Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission protect the citizens of Mendota Heights on the head to head operations. City Administrator Lindberg stated that this would be an easier item to address once NOC has held their first meeting. Council Member Vitelli stated that his task is to represent the people and noted that he would need to work with the Commission to ensure that their concerns are addressed. Commissioner Edstrom stated that their goal is to provide Council Member Vitelli with action items from the meetings. Council Member Vitelli agreed stating that after two to three NOC meetings he would have a better idea of what this group is about and how he can move forward on concerns. Chair Beaty stated that this is exactly what the Commission is hoping for from the NOC. Chair Beaty asked how the Commission would know if they were adhering to the eight percent. He asked if they would have to ask them specifically to create data that would show it. He stated that right now the only way to track the information is if they continually request the information. He stated that he would like to make sure the monitoring of Runway 17-35 happens. He stated that it should include information regarding the non-simultaneous departures included in the Technical Advisor report. Council Member Vitelli suggested that they try to increase the amount of face to face communication with the MAC and the FAA. He stated that Roy Fuhrman and Chad Leqve are very willing to attend meetings and discuss issues. He suggested providing one or two items to address versus hitting them with several. He also suggested trying to get 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] them to attend as often as possible noting that they would make more progress working with them than to be adversarial. Chair Beaty stated that Council Member Vitelli's point regarding communication is very well taken noting that over time the attitude has become skeptical and non-trusting. He explained that over time they have been conned several times and explained that they operate in such a way that they are pitting cities against each other. He agreed that more is accomplished with face to face communication. Commissioner Roszak clarified that they are trying to manage noise not create silence. He stated that they are ready to be reasonable and fair. Council Member Vitelli stated that Mr. Hamiel does not want the residential development and suggested discussing options with him that would benefit the City. Commissioner Petschel clarified that in all the times they have met with Mr. Leqve and Mr. Fuhrman that they have never brought issues to them that have not been well thought out. She reviewed issues discussed with the MAC and the results they have and have not received noting that the Commission has been very open to communicating with both Mr. Leqve and Mr. Fuhrman. Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Stein suggested that the ARC should begin receiving information now. He stated that they should be concerned with what is presently taking place with respect to the ANOMS testing and home acquisition. Commissioner Roszak agreed stating that they could request updates specific to the ANOMS for Runway 17-35. Commissioner Petschel asked for an update on the acquisition of property in Richfield/Bloomington areas. Commissioner Roszak agreed and asked to include their projections in the updates. Chair Beaty asked if they should include a request for information on the non-simultaneous departures and how they are complying. He suggested utilizing current information not information from previous years. He suggested including the final review on their agenda for the December meeting with the intent for Council review in January. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: Commissioner Stein referenced jet carrier operations in Tech Report and reviewed with Commission. Commissioner Petschel stated that based on some of things that happened in last election there is a new wind blowing with regards to the MAC and the Met Council. She referenced a Channel 4 presentation on the MAC and Met Council and reviewed the results of the expose with the Commission. She explained that there could be changes within the Legislation that could bring more accountability and legislative oversight. The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: a. Letter to Jeff Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, from Cari Lindberg, City of Mendota Heights, dated October 7, 2002 b. Letter to Cari Lindberg, City of Mendota Heights, from Jeff Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated November 1, 2002 c. Washington N.O.I.S.E. Watch October 28, 2002 2002-11-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:57 PM] d. Memorandum from Thomas W. Anderson, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated October 23, 2002 e. Metropolitan Airports Commission: Breakthrough on Second Airport Tunnel, dated October 28, 2002. f. Copy of “Tower Order” g. September 2002 Eagan/Mendota Heights Departure Corridor Analysis h. September 2002 Technical Advisor’s Report (draft) i. Operations Comparison: September 2001 vs. September 2002 j. What’s New at the MAC Aviation Noise and Satellite Programs Commission Meeting – November 13, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission k. Airport Noise Reports OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS Chair Beaty suggested planning the Christmas Holiday Party. He stated that Commissioner Roszak would host it again this year. The Commission agreed on December 20, 2002. The Commission agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.