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2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES October 9, 2002 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 7:00 p.m., in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights, Minnesota. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Liz Petschel, Vern Edstrom, Joseph Leuman, Gregg Fitzer, Ellsworth Stein and John Roszak. Staff present: Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister, and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Also present was Council Member Jack Vitelli, NOC Representative. Not Present: Cari Lindberg, City Administrator, was excused due to illness. Approval of Minutes Approval of September 11, 2002 minutes. Commissioner Petschel had corrections. She referenced page two, first paragraph for the Rogers Lake East Noise Reduction Committee, seventh line “he stated previous issues raised with FAA due to lack of algorithm” should be “lack of humidity”. She referenced page two, second paragraph, seventh line referencing the area departures “over Minneapolis” should be “Minneapolis, Eagan and Mendota Heights.” Chair Beaty stated that Runway 422 should be Runway 4-22. Commissioner Petschel stated she had several corrections. She referenced page two through four for the Rogers Lake East Noise Reduction Committee, stating that she has several corrections. She read her suggested changes to the Commission stating that she would provide Administrative Assistant Hollister with a copy of her corrections. Mr. Kosel referenced statements regarding jets north of Highway 110 versus props stating that on page 310 of the Part 150 Update there is a paragraph addressing this issue. He stated that it is included in the rough draft copy but never made it to the final copy. He reviewed the content of the rough draft with the Commission. Commissioner Petschel stated that she suspects that it was a capacity driven decision noting the nautical turn and explained further to Mr. Kosel. She further stated that by doing the wheels up 95 turn it would give them a different heading and believes that it was done deliberately. Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty stated that he was not sure it was a study adding that it was claimed to always be on the books. Mr. Kosel stated that they challenged them on this item adding that it then disappeared from the final. Commissioner Petschel confirmed that she does believe they deleted it and it was discussed at the last meeting. A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Fitzer to approve the minutes as amended. Motion carried 6-0. Unfinished/New Business A. Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee Chair Beaty reviewed the letter to the MAC with the Commission. He asked the 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] Commission for their feedback and recommendations to the Council. Mr. Heide reviewed his intent with the Commission stating that he tried to write a letter that included at least one or two facts that would provide them a basis to believe their concerns. He explained that he assigned a dollar value and requested that the budget be suspended or if they proceed, reserve the amount assigned to insulate the homes. He referenced his letter to Commissioner McKasy stating that he has asked to be allowed to present their evidence to the Commissioners. Commissioner Petschel suggested that they work quickly to address these issues. Mr. Heide suggested copying Ted Mondale and Thomas Egan in addition to making a presentation to Eagan. He stated that if they go public the visual would be very powerful. He suggested that both letters go out on City letterhead. Mr. Heide explained that they took a count of the homes they represent in the Rogers Lake East neighborhood and came up with approximately 100 homes at $40,000.00 for each home. He explained that they backed the dollars down noting that some of the homes have been built to code, which brought the dollar amount down under $4 million. Commissioner Edstrom asked what is included in the $40,000.00. Mr. Heide clarified stating that it would include new windows, insulation and air conditioning. Mr. Kosel explained that the tightness of the home would determine what would need to be done. He stated that the process includes several documents that require a signature from the homeowner and reviewed it with the Commission. He further stated that it would include windows, air conditioning, furnace, doors, chimney, and insulation. He explained that the new program discusses bringing a noise generator into the home to take a reading. He stated that they are trying to get the home to a certain decibel rate. Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Mr. Heide stated that any changes to the letter are fine with him as long as the changes are accurate. He explained that they tried to be clear and not place any sentences that would come back negatively noting that they are not making wild accusations. Chair Beaty asked what their timeline is for the letters and if they want them included at the next City Council meeting. Commissioner Petschel confirmed that they want the letters included at the next Council meeting. She explained that the hearings are scheduled to begin in November and that they need to act on the documents soon. Chair Beaty clarified that all they can do is send this on to the City Council for their review. He suggested stating what they want at the very beginning of the letter. Mr. Vitelli referenced their goals and asked for clarification. Chair Beaty explained that the Commission has several issues adding that Rogers Lake East is only one of several that the Commission has chosen to support. Mr. Vitelli stated that the one weakness he sees is that the focus or foundation block is the 1996 map being incorrect. He asked what they would do if the Commissioners state that it is correct. Mr. Heide stated that they would make a presentation that would include the maps. He further stated that one could not argue with the maps, as they are not false. Mr. Vitelli explained that he is trying to think ahead, of how they might react. He explained that they might reference the Runway 17-35 changes and state that the map would be updated within a year. He asked if all of the Commissioners would see their presentation and asked if they would be able to present. Chair Beaty stated that it is very possible and that they need to try. 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] Mr. Vitelli asked why they wrote to Commissioner McKasy. Commissioner Petschel explained that Commissioner McKasy is the Chair and also from the community. Mr. Kosel asked if the letters would have to go out under the Mayor's signature. Chair Beaty stated that it is the normal process. Chair Beaty asked how the Mayor and Council reacted to the request and the letter. Commissioner Petschel stated that the Mayor seems to be very receptive to the letter adding that it was a very respectful route to take. A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Fitzer, to approve a letter, to be reworded by City Staff into City format, to be presented to City Council at the next City Council meeting for their review and approval. Motion carried 6-0. Chair Beaty clarified that the letter would be sent to Commissioner McKasy and Mr. Vorpahl. Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission B. Discussion with NOC Representative Jack Vitelli Chair Beaty introduced Council Member Jack Vitelli stating that he is the City's representative on the newly formed Noise Oversight Committee (NOC). He stated that the Council also appointed Council Member Krebsbach to serve as alternate representative on the committee. He stated that there has been a lack of communication due to the absence of MASAC for sometime and Mr. Vitelli has volunteered to come to their meetings as often as he can to contribute to their discussions on airport issues. Mr. Vitelli confirmed that he would be at every meeting, schedule permitting and that he looks forward to working with everyone. He stated that he has concluded that there is no more important issue faced by the citizens of Mendota Heights than airport noise and complimented the City departments for their efforts. He stated that the people are generally happy with the community. Mr. Vitelli stated that he has met with Mr. Fuhrman and Mr. Leqve. He explained that they shared backgrounds and that they provided him with a multitude of information including the Blue Ribbon Committee recommendation. Mr. Kosel asked Mr. Vitelli if he is familiar with the Part 150 rough draft and final draft that was submitted last fall. Mr. Vitelli stated that he is aware of it but has not read it. Mr. Kosel suggested that Mr. Heide and Mr. Vitelli meet to review Mr. Heide’s copy of the rough draft. Mr. Heide clarified that the meeting would be more for the ideas and that he would support Mr. Vitelli with whatever he needed. Mr. Kosel stated that many of the letters written include quotes of the violation. Chair Beaty encouraged the Commission members to meet with Mr. Vitelli to help bring him up to speed on the issues. Mr. Vitelli referenced the Commission's Action/Goal setting document and process stating that he has reviewed the document and would like to discuss their goals and strategies and assist them in any way. C. Garron/Acacia Site Concept Plan Administrative Assistant Hollister said that the Airport Relations Commission has previously asked Staff to provide the Commission with copies of any land use proposals for the Garron/Acacia site. Mr. Hollister therefore introduced the land use proposal from 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] Ron Clark and John Uban for the Garron/Acacia site. He suggested getting feedback from Councilmember Vitelli. Mr. Vitelli stated that the first time he had heard of this issue was when the Lung Association presented their proposal for the property. He explained that the discussion Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission between Council and the Mayor was the lack of generating revenue. He noted the discussion for a residential site stating that he has tried to determine the motivation. He stated that the initial thought would be to place individuals in this position to give more credence to the arguments presented. He stated that one argument to place residential in this area has been the tax revenue. He further stated that he is open to hearing what the ARC has to say. Chair Beaty asked if it would actually bring revenue to the area. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that if it was developed to the density and price point it is presently at or better that it would be difficult for a commercial development to top it in assessed value. He further stated that there is no guarantee that the Planning Commission and City Council would approve of the plan as presented. He stated that if it was sized down further, to an acceptable density level, that it might not generate revenue tax any better than would a commercial development on the same property. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that it seems the majority of the money is going into the interior design of the unit versus the exterior. He clarified that the City Council and the Planning Commission have continuously discussed that this is the key gateway area of Mendota Heights. He explained that they want a development in this area that would optimize the view of the river and the view of the driver as they are coming into the area that would leave the image that it is the supreme location of the area. He acknowledged that the exterior, as planned, might not leave this impression. Commissioner Petschel stated that the item she found most disturbing is that it gives the appearance of green space for outside activities adding that this is not a site where you would be out on a deck or in the yard. She further stated that it gives the illusion that it is in the quiet of the country and that the noise does not exist. She stated that the only thing they could do, morally or ethically, would be some type of very deluxe condos and that the residents know about the noise and do not have expectations that they would have the opportunity for outside activities. She stressed that they would need to know that it would be quiet inside and understand that any outside activity would be very noisy. She stated that her first choice would be industrial or a strong mix of industrial/commercial. She stated that they would get the noise from takeoffs from both Minneapolis and Mendota Heights. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they might be able to achieve the same density with a six-story condo and insulate to industrial grade. Mr. Vitelli asked if the noise would be worse than Augusta Shores. The Commission stated that it would be worse and suggested that Mr. Vitelli visit the area. Mr. Vitelli stated that it is a difficult piece of property and that he would prefer to see some form of commercial. He stated that the access is bad adding that industrial would be okay as the traffic would not be such a large concern. He stated that this is a very different site for noise adding that they would be looking over and into the airport. Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty stated that the noise levels are going to be horrendous in this area. Mr. Vitelli suggested presenting an alternative to the present proposal or presenting a statement that would address this type of residential use. 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] Commissioner Fitzer expressed concerns stating that it is either residential or it is not. He stated that it is too close to the airport and that the City would receive too many complaints. He stated that the area should not be residential at all. Mr. Vitelli noted that this is an emotional subject stating that it would help the cause if they could make a list of logical reasons why this is inappropriate use for the site. He suggested providing factual comments on the noise level and offer comparisons to show the point they are trying to make. Chair Beaty agreed stating that the group has to come to a consensus on the proposal. He suggested that they come to an agreement, residential or not, get it down on paper and send their suggestions to City Council for review. A motion was made by Commissioner Petschel, seconded by Commissioner Edstrom, to approve the Commission statement that the Airport Relations Commission is against residential in this area due to the following: noisy over-flights, backwash from takeoffs over Minneapolis and all day ambient airport noise. Motion carried 6-0. Mr. Vitelli suggested that the Commission create a list of issues and determine the pros and cons for each issue. Chair Beaty noted that if there is a continued message from the City Council that they want residential in this area that they would continue to get proposals for residential developments. He further stated that if they send the message that they want industrial they would receive proposals for industrial. He said that the message on the street is that the City Council wants residential. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted that it has great visibility with less than great access. He stated that the site might be appropriate for a back office function for a large company that wants the corporate visibility but does not need the general public to be able to visit the building easily. Chair Beaty asked if they could create access from Highways 110 and 55. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that they would need MnDOT permission and that it would be very expensive and logistically problematic. D. Airport Noise Plan of Action Chair Beaty commended Commissioner Petschel on her hard work putting the format together. He asked for a review of their process. Commissioner Petschel explained the Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission process they took stating that they worked from the initial rough draft and that they reviewed older documents to make sure everything was included. She stated that they reviewed the action steps and that the Commission needs to prioritize. Chair Beaty asked if they discussed the equity of the runway system. Commissioner Petschel stated that it is included in the goal statement. Mr. Vitelli stated that he is still struggling on the goal statement and tactics. Administrative Assistant Hollister explained that the Airport Noise Plan of Action needed to be reorganized and that Commissioner Petschel has worked on the restructuring of the document. Mr. Vitelli reviewed his understanding of the ARC goals and asked the Commission to clarify their goals and their process. Commissioner Petschel provided Mr. Vitelli with an overview of their thought process. 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] Commissioner Petschel stated that if you ask someone in Mendota Heights what their goal would be it would be to make the planes go away. She clarified that they know that is not going to happen and that now they need to determine a process that would be a compromise with the noise issues. Commissioner Fitzer stated that it would be very difficult to quantify airport noise in certain circumstances due to weather issues, changes in wind direction or humidity adding that it is tough to measure the actual noise if measured in terms of decibels. Commissioner Petschel provided an example definition of the noise corridor over Mendota Heights noting that 10% of the operations is outside the corridor and that they do plan to address this issue. She stated that this just began to appear in the last year or two and if they could hold them accountable they could reduce the operations by at least 10%. Chair Beaty explained the third parallel runway contract agreement and process to Mr. Vitelli. He stated that the contract has not been signed and that it has been an issue with the ARC for at least two years. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that at this time he is not sure of the status of the contract. Commissioner Petschel stated that the contract also prevents building an additional runway for 17 years but they cannot land bank. Chair Beaty noted that there is language in the contract that the Legislature could override. Chair Beaty suggested that Administrative Assistant Hollister follow up with City Administrator Lindberg regarding the status of the contract. Mr. Vitelli suggested placing quantitative measurements to show the goal. He asked what department works as the legislative oversight for the MAC. Commissioner Petschel Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission stated that this is something they have been watching with respect to movements in the legislature to move the MAC under various agencies. She stated that they have been receiving communications that the MAC could be placed under another agency. She stated that they have been keeping a close watch on the progress. Chair Beaty stated that the last consideration was that it would be placed under MnDOT. He stated that there were several issues with this placement and that it did not happen. Commissioner Petschel stated that there is a lot of legislative movement and that they like to keep an eye on what is happening. Chair Beaty stated that it appears some of the issues do not have goals assigned. Commissioner Petschel explained that the issue is actually the goal. Commissioner Edstrom suggested replacing the word ‘issue’ with the word ‘goal’. Commissioner Leuman asked if they would be prioritizing the goals. Chair Beaty suggested trying to prioritize the issues and at the meeting next month rearrange the issues and add the action steps. Commissioner Petschel suggested flipping item 1 & 2. She stated that the Noise Oversight Committee is the first that has any kind of clout that could assist in the noise mitigation issues. Chair Beaty suggested moving Items 10, 11, 12 up in priority and reviewed with the Commission. He suggested moving the Head to Head Operations to Item 6. He noted the conversion of the hush-kit stating that the Commission could send letters and assist in various causes such as the hush-kit issue. Commissioner Fitzer stated that this should be last on the list as they would have absolutely no control over this issue noting that the argument would be that they are in compliance. Commissioner Petschel stated that this is 2002-10-09 Airport Relations Commission Mintues.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:55 PM] something that would come through Mr. Vitelli’s group, the NOC, and agreed that their issue should be something different. Commissioner Fitzer suggested that they prioritize based on what the Commission could have control over or influence on. He explained the Stage 4 process noting that the airlines are a long way from this unless it becomes a mandate. He stated that it would be good to continue monitoring the hush-kit issue but it should be at the bottom of the list for priority. Chair Beaty acknowledged stating that his belief is that on issues like this they can make a change through public outcry. Commissioner Petschel asked for clarification of the landing gear issue on the DC9’s. Commissioner Fitzer stated that he is not aware of any issues or problems other than what had happened. Chair Beaty clarified agreement to flip Items 1 and 2, Items 3 and 4 remain in place and review later, Item 5 remains in place and move Items 10, 11 and 12 to Items 6, 7 and 8. Item 9 remains in place and Items 6, 7 and 8 become Items 10, 11 and 12. Commission Meeting – October 9, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty asked Administrative Assistant Hollister to make the recommended changes for discussion at the next meeting. He stated that they would work on their action steps and asked that this issue be the priority for next agenda. Mr. Vitelli asked for further clarification of their goals noting that it needs some quantifying numbers. Commissioner Petschel stated that the problem with numbers is the capacity noting that it is federally mandated. She stated that all they can do is review the airport operations and tweak to the best benefit for Mendota Heights. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: a. Letter to Thomas W. Anderson, Metropolitan Airports Commission, from Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee, dated September 10, 2002. b. August 2002 Eagan/Mendota Heights Departure Corridor Analysis. c. August 2002 Technical Advisor's Report (Draft). d. Operations Comparison: August 2001 vs August 2002. e. WHAT’S NEW at the MAC Aviation Noise and Satellite Programs. f. Notice of Meeting of the TAC-Aviation Committee g. Airport Noise Reports OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS Chair Beaty suggested following agenda items - Noise Plan of Action - Jack Vitelli/NOC update The Commission agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.