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2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES May 8, 2002 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, May 8, 2002, at 7:00 p.m. in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Joseph Leuman, Vern Edstrom, Gregg Fitzer, Liz Petschel, and Ellsworth Stein. Staff present: Administrative Assistant Patrick Hollister and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Also in attendance: Guy Heide, Duane Taylor and Terry Zein, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioner John Roszak Approval of Minutes Approval of April 10, 2002 Minutes. Chair Beaty stated that Administrative Assistant Hollister has provided a revised set of minutes for the April 10, 2002 meeting and suggested that the Commission review the minutes before making a motion to approve. He referenced page three, paragraph 3, stating that the runway numbers, for the runways closed for rehab, were incorrect. Commissioner Stein clarified that the runway number should be the southwest corner of Runway 422. Commissioner Edstrom referenced page two, third paragraph from the bottom, stating that it should read 600-foot separation not 60-0. Chair Beaty referenced page three, second paragraph from the bottom and clarified that it is their understanding that to equip each plane with GPS it would cost approximately $36,000.00 per plane. Chair Beaty clarified that they are concerned about GPS, as it could be either helpful or harmful to Mendota Heights. Chair Beaty further clarified that it would be based on how they use GPS and the area they use to measure. Chair Beaty referenced page four, fourth paragraph stating that it was his understanding that air travel has increase by more than half adding that they are almost back to normal in operations. Chair Beaty stated that he remembers stating that the airport had recovered better than any other in the Nation. Commissioner Edstrom referenced page four, paragraph six and clarified that the MASAC meeting would be held on a quarterly basis and that Ms. Smith specifically Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission discussed every two months. Commissioner Stein further clarified that a quarterly meeting is required and that they are trying to schedule six meetings annually. Administrative Assistant Hollister confirmed stating that the MASAC has to meet at least four times a year. A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Fitzer, to approve the minutes as amended. Vote 6 Ayes, 0 Nays. Unfinished/New Business A. Presentation by Guy Heide. 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Guy Heide provided the Commission with an information packet and reviewed the contents with the Commission. Mr. Heide stated that the last time they came before the Commission was on December 12, 2001. Mr. Heide provided an update of events since December 2001 stating that on January 5, 2002 they filed an appeal and that on January 29, 2002 Mr. Hamiel wrote to refer them to their attorney, Thomas Anderson. He explained that they were told it would cost $10,895.00 to obtain the data that they have requested. Commissioner Petschel clarified the dollar amount and asked if that was quoted during the December/January timeframe. Mr. Heide confirmed stating that he spoke with Assistant General Attorney Glen Peterson. Mr. Heide stated that it was suggested that they write a letter requesting detail. Mr. Heide stated that they provided additional evidence on March 5, 2002 when they testified before a FAA Investigation Committee. Mr. Heide explained that they have spent millions on a map they contend is false, adding that this is a federal crime. Mr. Heide stated that on March 7, 2002 the MAC offered to provide the data they requested for $47.95 noting that this is considerably less than the original quote of $10,895.00. He stated that he would like to thank Mendota Heights for payment. Mr. Heide stated that Mr. Lightfoot was hired to investigate. Mr. Heide stated that Mr. Lightfoot is not a neutral individual as he has previously defended the MAC in noise litigation issues. Mr. Heide stated that on April 15, 2002 they requested more data behind the reduction of noise contours and referred the Commission to the information provided for their review. Mr. Heide stated that last December he and Mr. Kosel reviewed the contract adding that the contract dated 1991, is ten years old. Mr. Heide stated that he wrote a letter asking to see the information in the file that shows the contract award process and how they determined that they contract would be awarded to HNTB. Mr. Heide stated that they were told that they did not have a file and that there was no competitive quote available for review. Mr. Heide referenced a memo dated December 4, 2000, from Richard Biddle, Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission MAC, recommending an increase in compensation to HNTB stating that this document is of interest as it shows intervention. Mr. Heide stated that it is always portrayed that we have the I&M program and that flight paths and patterns are assigned to the planes, which creates the flight contour adding that this is not what they did. Mr. Heide explained that it appears that the HNTB has redesigned the entire noise contour map. Mr. Heide stated that they responded to errors in the Lightfoot report adding that they met with Commissioner Mackesy to discuss their concerns. Mr. Heide stated that on April 3, 2002 they contacted the FBI to request an investigation and reviewed their request with the Commission. Mr. Heide stated that he had a preliminary conversation with Roger Anderson, a noise consultant and that he has a May 18, 2002 meeting at the State Capital. Mr. Heide noted that after the initial presentation, Commissioner Mackesy requested an additional meeting to discuss the issues further. Mr. Heide provided the Commission with an information packet outling their major issues. Mr. Heide referenced the 1996 Map stating that it was developed in 1992 and reviewed the history of the design with the Commission. Mr. Heide explained that this is the official contour map that determines home insulation eligibility. Mr. Heide referenced the 1994 DNL Noise Contour map and reviewed with the Commission. Mr. Heide reviewed the revision requirements for the contour map design and explained the 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] compatible and non-compatible landmass to the Commission. Mr. Heide stated that when the noise level increases 1.5 decibels, causing formerly compatible land to become non-compatible, that the map must be revised. Mr. Heide showed the Commission that the Rogers Lake East Neighborhood falls directly within the DNL 65 contour area on the 1994 DNL Noise Contour Map adding that they were formerly in the DNL 60. Mr. Heide stating that for the last six years they have been spending federal funds on a false map. Mr. Heide discussed the eastward bias over the Rogers Lake East area based on the Operations Map to the Southeast of Minneapolis and provided a comparison based on the 1994 DNL Contour. Commissioner Leuman asked if HNTB created the 1994 map. Mr. Heide confirmed that HNTB did create the 1994 map. Commissioner Petschel asked if a cost estimate has been developed based on the false map. Mr. Heide stated that they have not developed a cost estimate. Mr. Heide clarified that his question is if they do not have the money why would they cut the Noise Mitigation Plan. Mr. Heide referenced the Part 150 Study stating that they added a humidity algorithm in 1994 and that this was not included in the map. Mr. Heide stated that things are not as Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission erratic as it seems quoting that it is State law that the Airport Commission must commit to working from the 2010 long-term plan. Mr. Heide referenced the 2010 plan document stating that it is dated January 1, 1999. Mr. Heide referenced the noise mitigation program stating that it consists of projects to insulate houses and schools within the DNL 65 and 1996 DNL 60 contours. Mr. Heide explained that the MAC refuses to fund the DNL 60 contour stating that the State Legislature has authorized and directed them to work from the 2010 plan adding that they are not currently working from the 2010 plan. Mr. Heide stated that it is their intention to point this out to the State Auditor. Mr. Zein stated that Rogers Lake is like an echo when the planes go over as the sound off the water carries. Mr. Zein referenced the stations that are taking readings and asked Mr. Heidi to clarify them further. Mr. Heide referenced the integrity of the DNL measurements taken from the noise monitors and reviewed the process with the Commission. Mr. Heide explained that noise monitors 13 and 15 ignore any event that is under 65 decibels for longer than 8 seconds stating that he asked if this affects the average. Mr. Heide referenced the three statute miles from the end of runways 12N and 12R. Mr. Heide stated that before Mr. Kosel bought his home in 1989 he spent a full day watching the planes and that he noticed the planes went three miles before departure. Mr. Heide stated that they referred this to Mr. Leqve adding that they were told that this was probably a misunderstanding. Mr. Heide stated that in the next document published the statement referencing the three miles was changed. Mr. Heide stated that he wrote a letter to the FAA regarding the new adjustments made to the updated document and reviewed their request with the Commission. Mr. Heide read the department procedures and stated that they received a letter stating that they would need to make a freedom of information request to receive further documentation. Mr. Heide stated that they explained to Commissioner Mackesy that if they have nothing more than the 1996 map that they have proven their case. Mr. Heide stated that the map should have been properly revised in 1996 making the Rogers Lake East Neighborhood homes eligible for insulation. Mr. Heide stated that the first revision of the DNL noise contour map was in 1987 and that it was revised again in 1992 and 2001. 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Mr. Heide stated that it is his belief that they have known for years that Rogers Lake was in the 65 contour adding that in the document, 150.23, the only change is to increase the 65 contour. Mr. Heide explained that they do not recognize shrinking contours and it only authorizes changes if the sound increases by 1.5 decibels. Chair Beaty stated that they have been saying, for ten years, that the contours and noise levels would shrink with the reasoning of quieter planes. Mr. Heide stated that he asked the FAA for clarification noting that they have put a hold on the Part 150. Mr. Heide stated that they have to share the formulations of the contours with a number of people, including the public. Mr. Heide stated that the government would not process it and he Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission asked the Federal project manager to clarify adding that he would not provide an answer. Mr. Heide stated that there is a provision where they can write a letter to the General Council of the FAA adding that this would probably be their intent. Mr. Heide stated that by law they cannot reduce the contours and they must follow the insulation agreements for the DNL 65. Chair Beaty encouraged them to keep up the good work and stated that if there is anything the Commission can do to help let them know. Mr. Heide explained that they had to swear that the 1996 map was true adding that when they discovered it to be false that they should have reported the changes and made the revisions. Commissioner Edstrom asked for the publish dates. Mr. Heide stated that Part 150 was in 1992 and the DNL 65 was in 1996. Commissioner Petschel asked if they used the actual data from the I&M’s to compare with the anoms. Commissioner Petschel asked if the calculation was adjusted for humidity and asked if this was unique for this airport. Mr. Heide stated that humidity was not calculated because humidity was a unique situation. Commissioner Petschel added that this could affect other airports besides ours, as it appears that this is the same consulting group that publishes maps for all of the airports. Commissioner Petschel stated that it is her personal observation that it is a positive with respect to the Legislature and their feelings towards the FAA and MAC noting that they are very vulnerable right now. Mr. Heide stated Representative Wes Skoglund was with them when they presented to the FAA stating that they are looking to investigate the MAC. Commissioner Petschel asked if these would be Federal or State crimes or a little of both. Mr. Heide stated both and reviewed with the Commission. Mr. Heide stated that there are laws that require the MAC to follow the Federal Part 150 plan in order to meet Federal requirements. Commissioner Petschel asked if the lack of competitive bidding is a violation of law. Mr. Heide stated that they received a letter stating that the uniform municipal contracting law does not apply between MAC and HNTB. Mr. Heide reviewed the content of the response with the Commission. Commissioner Petschel asked if they have a long-term strategy or if their counter steps are being dictated by each result. Mr. Heide explained that they have several options and explained that one option would be for the neighbors to chip in and go to court. Mr. Heide stated that it is his thought that they would decide, as committee, to put out a flyer to the citizens of Mendota Heights that shows them the DNL contours. Mr. Heide stated Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] that they could develop a petition and send it to President Bush. Mr. Heide stated that he did call U. S. Attorney Heffelfinger adding that they would have to attract public attention to this issue and that they should send a petition. Commissioner Edstrom asked the size of the company and where HNTB is located. Terry Zien explained that HNTB is a national company with a local office located in Minneapolis. Commissioner Petschel asked if they have considered going to the press. Mr. Heide stated that he and Mr. Kosel have discussed this as a possibility adding that it is their hope that they would not have to do that. Commissioner Petschel suggested discussing this issue with Mike Hatch. Mr. Heide stated that they tried to work with the Staff of the Commission and then went to the FAA. Mr. Heide stated that they are presently working with the FAA in the hopes that they will rule in their favor. Commissioner Petschel acknowledged that they are trying very hard to work through the chain of command and commended the group on the work they have done. Chair Beaty asked if the SMAC is aware of this issue. Mr. Heide stated that they are not aware of this issue as yet adding that presently they are keeping it between their group and the FAA. Chair Beaty explained that as soon as they agree to insulate they are admitting the mistake adding that it could become rather costly. Commissioner Petschel asked what the fines and penalties would be for not executing according to the plan. Mr. Heide stated that he is sure there is a law regarding the spending of federal monies but is not familiar with the penalties. Mr. Heide stated that they have tried to be dignified with their dealings with these organizations. Duane Taylor, 2338 Kressin Avenue stated that he has lived in the area for 29 years. Mr. Taylor explained that the entire area was Paul Kressin’s farm noting that he is a block off Dodd. Mr. Taylor stated that in the house he is in right now, they could hear the front bay window at night vibrating when the planes go over. Mr. Taylor stated that the noise hadn’t really affected anything until the last ten years adding that it is definitely .65. Mr. Taylor stated that they are fortunate to have someone in the neighborhood that is willing to take this issue on and make the points that need to be made in support of their neighborhood. Terry Zein, 838 Cherry Lane stated that the data they received is on five CD’s. Mr. Zein explained that they did not receive any documentation explaining the files or the exhibits. Mr. Zein stated that it would not take much time to review adding that he has not received the program yet that allows him to view the files. Mr. Zein stated that the information is supposed to be what generated the new Part 150. Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Mr. Heide clarified that Mr. Zien is capable of doing an analysis to determine whether they can come up with same map. Mr. Zien stated that he is not totally comfortable with the application adding that he is familiar with components of the application and believes it would not be a big problem to review the data. Mr. Heide referenced a previous suggestion that City Administrator Lindberg had stated that the City would pay for the software and that he intends to discuss this further now that he knows that Mr. Zien would use the software. Chair Beaty encouraged Mr. Heide to continue writing the letters. Commissioner Petschel stated that they are a wonderful example of a group of citizens willing to take on Federal agency and stated that they have done a great job. 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Mr. Zein stated that he has a copy of the final report submitted to the FAA and offered to make copies for anyone who wants. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked if Mr. Heide has asked Roy Fuhrman or Chad Levqe about the 1994 contours and why they had not been revised. Mr. Heide stated that Commissioner Mackesy asked the question stating that this is why he was providing the chronology of the situation. Mr. Heide stated that at the time of their appeal with the FAA they had found the 1994 map adding that this is why it was in another letter. Mr. Heide stated that Commissioner Mackesy is trying to setup a scenario that would provide the opportunity to ask for clarification. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they would be interested to learn their response. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted to the Commission that he included Mr. Heide’s most recent letters in the packet. Commissioner Petschel asked if they have the impression that they are an under-represented group. Chair Beaty noted that he could understand how they could feel this way. Commissioner Leuman noted that they are a lot more prepared than the first time they presented. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that this was a very good presentation in comparison to previous discussions. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that it appears that they are really on to something and explained that it has been presented to the Mayor and that the Mayor has been very cautious about what the City gets involved with, especially with respect to legal issues. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that he would discuss the $300.00 for the I&M program with City Administrator Lindberg. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that it is not an argument as to whether they are part of the DNL 65 as much as the legal issues it would involve. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that he remembered, in 1997/98, hearing about the MAC projections stating that they were critiquing the scenario that the MAC was introducing. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that it appears that Mr. Heide would not pose the question asked until May 25, 2002 adding that they cannot deny the map. Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Commissioner Edstrom confirmed that Jeff Hamiel at the MAC has specifically instructed all MAC employees that there is to be no communication with the Rogers Lake East Neighborhood adding that they have specific channels for communication at this point. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that Mr. Heide and the Rogers Lake East group have a very focused intent and that focus is to get their homes insulated. Administrative Assistant Hollister explained that the more parties involved could cause them to possibly lose sight of their original goal which is to insulate their homes. Commissioner Edstrom acknowledged the focused approach that is being taken by the Rogers Lake East group and asked where this issue with HNTB came from. Commissioner Edstrom asked for clarification regarding the award for a one million- dollar contract adding that they are getting into an area where the MAC has violated so many different laws that has nothing to do with the insulation. Commissioner Petschel agreed stating that it does establish a pattern. Administrative Assistant Hollister noted that there are relatively few organizations that work with airport noise levels and agreed that they should have advertised for bids. Commissioner Edstrom clarified that they do need to have documentation that shows they have appropriately advertised for bids. Commissioner Stein expressed concerns regarding the criminal intent adding that he is supportive of their efforts. Commissioner Petschel agreed stating it may not have been a 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] good intent to start with so early in the process. B. Airport Noise Plan of Action Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that City Administrator Lindberg had requested that this item be on the agenda for discussion. Chair Beaty clarified that the high priority items are the items they had redone from the last meeting. Commissioner Petschel noted that the Commission handout/brochure includes their priorities and reviewed the changes made with the Commission. Commissioner Petschel stated that they discussed the contract and asked if this was supposed to be moved to a high priority item. Commissioner Petschel stated that the document provided is an older version of what was last discussed. Commissioner Fitzer suggested tabling this discussion to the next meeting. The Commission agreed by consensus to table the discussion and schedule for the next meeting. Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that he would provide the current revision for their review prior to the next meeting. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Commissioner Stein referenced page 17, 19 and 25 of the March Technical Advisor Report and reviewed with the Commission. Commissioner Stein referenced Site 5 and 6 in Minneapolis stating that if you want a good idea of what aircraft noise can do visit these two sites sometime during the day as the noise levels are really bad in that area. Chair Beaty referenced the jet fleet operations on pages five and six and reviewed the percentages with the Commission. Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: a. Letter from Guy Heide, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee, to Thomas W. Anderson, Metropolitan Airports Commission dated April 15, 2002. b. Letter from the Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission dated April 16, 2002. c. Letter from the Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Jeffrey Hamiel, Metropolitan Airports Commission dated April 18, 2002. d. Letter from Guy Heide, Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to Cindy Green, Metropolitan Airports Commission dated April 22, 2002. e. February 2002 MASAC Eagan/Mendota Heights Departure Corridor Analysis (Draft). f. February 2002 Technical Advisor’s Report (Draft). g. March 2002 Technical Advisor’s Report (Draft). h. WHAT’S NEW at the MAC Aviation Noise and Satellite Programs. i. Airport Noise Reports. OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS Commissioner Petschel noted her absence at the last meeting and asked for clarification on the presentation provided by Jill Smith on the future of the MASAC. She asked if Ms. Smith’s perspective is that the future of the MASAC would be effective. Chair Beaty stated that Ms. Smith seemed to believe that it would be highly effective. 2002-05-08 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Chair Beaty reviewed the discussion with the Commission. Commissioner Petschel asked who would appoint the people. Commissioner Leuman stated that there would be one person and one alternate and reviewed the selection process with the Commission. Commission Meeting –May 8, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Chair Beaty clarified that the group would be meeting on a quarterly basis. Commissioner Leuman confirmed stating that the intent would be to have an additional, separate meeting for public comments. Commissioner Petschel asked if they gave any ideas or suggestions for high priority items or issues that they want to address. Commissioner Leuman stated that they were not ready to determine the high priority issues yet. Chair Beaty commented that now that the video is finished they should focus on reviewing their previous goals and decide as a Commission what they would like to do to take some action. Commissioner Petschel asked if Runway 1735 is scheduled to be up and running next year. Chair Beaty clarified this it would not be open next year adding that it is projected to be complete in 2004. Commissioner Petschel stated that they are not sure how the flight patterns are going to shake out and suggested making this a high priority item so that when they are ready to open that runway they are prepared to address any potential issues. Commissioner Petschel suggested that they should watch and manage this runway as it unfolds and is placed into operation. Commissioner Petschel explained that this is because the environmental impact statement has been done and the runway was designed based on the statement that they need to comply. Commissioner Leuman stated that he is not as worried about the flight track as much as he is with the percentages. ADJOURNMENT A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Fitzer, to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.