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2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES April 10, 2002 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 7:00 p.m. in the Large Conference Room at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Joseph Leuman, Vern Edstrom, Gregg Fitzer, and Ellsworth Stein. Staff present: City Administrator Cari Lindberg, Administrative Assistant Patrick Hollister and Recorder Bonita Sullivan. Also attending was Jill Smith, ARC Commissioner and Chad Leqve, Metropolitan Airport Commission. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioners Liz Petschel and John Roszak. Approval of Minutes Approval of March 13, 2002 Minutes. Chair Beaty stated that he had corrections and referenced page three, second to last paragraph beginning with “the City Administrator agreed..” he explained that in his response to City Administrator Lindberg the minutes show his statement as “airport management has intention of changing things..” and it should read “airport management has no intention of changing things..”. He clarified that he was trying to explain the operational procedures at the airport and that they need to take a look at their goals and objectives and focus on the airport operations. He explained that the Commission might not be able to stop individuals meaning “developers”. Chair Beaty referenced page four, fourth paragraph beginning with “Commissioner Petschel asked what the trade off would be..” stating that “Larry” should be changed to read “Larry Shaughnessy”. Chair Beaty asked City Administrator Lindberg if letter referenced to on page four was completed. City Administrator Lindberg confirmed that an email has been sent to Mr. Leqve. A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Fitzer, to approve the minutes as corrected. Vote 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Unfinished/New Business A. Presentation by Chad Leqve Chad Leqve provided an overview of the Environmental Assessment Process and flight track options to the Commission. He explained that as part of the approval, provisions and commitments were made for an investigation of departure for Communities primarily to the south, such as Burnsville, Eagan, Mendota Heights and Bloomington. He explained that this provided the initial undertaking for the review of the Part 150 process. He reviewed several options and procedures for the westbound runways with the Commission stating that the intent is to determine a proposal for the departure procedure. He stated that the proposal utilizes the Minnesota River bottoms, south of the airport, in order to reduce noise impacts to the Residents. He explained that eastbound over Eagan they found that one location is no better than another stating that this is due to the development in that area. 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Mr. Leqve reviewed the evaluation criteria with the Commission stating that they cannot shift the noise to benefit one and impact another. He reviewed all possible options with the Commission. He stated that the EA does not want confusion that EA process is to circumvent. He explained that they would evaluate from an environmental perspective. He recommended that they review all of options, screen and determine the best possible option. He referenced the handouts provided and reviewed each template with the Commission. Commissioner Fitzer asked how long is runway 1735. Mr. Leqve stated 8003 feet. Mr. Leqve explained that DME equipment is standard equipment on all aircraft stating that it allows one to measure distance from the surface. He reviewed the DME options with the Commission adding that the FAA felt that they could do more to bring the initial noise impact down to the river bottom. He stated that the FAA had skepticism noting that further evaluation showed that it would not impact runway capacity. He explained that Air Traffic Controllers have a 60-0 foot separation that must be maintained. Chair Beaty stated that he is more concerned about the A Flight Tracks adding that he noticed the blue tracks out towards the west. He asked Mr. Leqve how many of these could fan out. Mr. Leqve clarified that it would be very minimal adding that the parallel runways are fairly heavily used. He further clarified that there would be minimal impact from the use of Runway 17 for Mendota Heights. Chair Beaty clarified that his concern is more when the parallel runways are not being used as much would the A track activity increase. He asked Mr. Leqve how many planes could possibly come around and head west or north. Mr. Leqve explained that nighttime is a big concern in addition to considering the atmospheric conditions, such as prevailing winds. He explained that typically at night the winds die down and if it is a north departure and they need to get their heading, the Controller has the option. He further Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission explained that they would probably push them to the northwest parallels if they have the flexibility to select a runway that is needed. He assured the Commission that they do not need to be extremely concerned about the impact of Runway 17 stating that departures would be infrequent at best. He stated that there is not a lot of flexibility to put aircraft on converging headings even at night adding that this is a positive thing for Mendota Heights. Jill Smith stated that she had the same impression with respect to the capacity issue. She noted that even if there were an errant plane, it would be higher because of the ground distance traveled. She referenced the new runway and asked if it is longer than the parallels. Mr. Leqve stated that the new runway is 8000 feet and clarified that it is not longer than the parallels. Ms. Smith referenced the temporary runway and asked Mr. Leqve to clarify. Mr. Leqve explained that Runways 262 and 17 would be closed this summer for rehab. Ms. Smith asked what runway would be used after construction. Mr. Leqve stated that they would use the crossway. Ms. Smith noted that the capacity would take some pressure off the parallels. She stated that it is an issue because the airport wants to fan as wide as possible off the parallels. She stated that the separation is a consideration noting that they would be going through an evolution with respect to volume of aircraft off this airport. She stated that as the numbers increase it would make a difference. She asked Mr. Leqve if during transition, when the number of actual takeoffs is less and based on percentages, would it be possible to give the community some relief during that period and shrink the corridor. Mr. Leqve stated that this would be a tough one and agreed that it is something that could be discussed. Ms. Smith stated that they need the numbers. Mr. Leqve explained that they 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] are in the process of upgrading at the airport stating that when the Federal Government establishes their guidelines the flexibility would be there to address the noise impact. Commissioner Fitzer stated that many of the carriers do not have GPS adding that it would be a long run before all of them are upgraded. Ms. Smith asked how much it costs for GPS. Chair Beaty stated that the cost is approximately $36,000. Mr. Leqve clarified that it would be more and explained the process of thinking with the FAA regarding GPS. He reviewed the costs and strategic options, such as remote and predefined tracks, with the Commission. Chair Beaty stated that they have had several discussions regarding GPS. He stated that, from their perspective, they should watch and be cognizant to the location of these planes and where they go. Mr. Leqve stated that this is unbelievable technology. He stated that they are advocating to the FAA that there are opportunities here to make the environmental designs more effective. Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that the largest concern is the largest runway and the impact of capacity. He asked, from a capacity point of view, which of the six scenarios would be considered the best and worst. Mr. Leqve explained that none are worse than the other and reviewed the criteria used for each scenario with the Commission. Administrative Assistant Hollister referenced the planes coming out from the two parallels over Mendota Heights and asked if Flight Track A would push some of the planes north. Mr. Leqve clarified that it would not adding that the new runway would be a benefit to Mendota Heights. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked Mr. Leqve how the air travel has improved since the September 11th tragedy. Mr. Leqve stated that it is back to more than half and reviewed with the Commission. He explained that this has also caused the airlines to do more scrutinizing and evaluation of their financial situation, which allows them to plan more strategically for the future. He stated that Northwest Airlines is taking a very aggressive stance in acquiring newer technology aircraft. He stated that the newer equipment would be a benefit in alleviating the noise impact even further. B. Presentation by ARC Commissioner Jill Smith on the Future of MASAC Jill Smith, ARC Commissioner stated that on Tuesday, March 26th a meeting of the MASAC Municipal Caucus was held to discuss the Blue Ribbon Panel’s recommendation to MAC on the formation of a new MSP International Airport Noise Oversight Committee. She explained that the panel developed a framework and set of bylaws for the proposed new committee. She provided an overview and history of the proposal for the Commission. She explained that the size of the MASAC was the first issue to be identified stating that there was a total of 36 seats, 18 City members and 18 User members. She further explained that they decided to cut down the number included and reviewed the process with the Commission. Ms. Smith stated that it was not clear if monthly meetings were necessary and explained the review process with the Commission. She stated that the material presented is now available on the Internet. She explained that the meeting schedule was determined based on the business as it comes and it was determined that every other month or at least one meeting per quarter was adequate. She explained the role of the MAC adding that the structure of this group would be as a technical committee doing the business done in the past by the MASAC. She stated that they would have the meetings as part of the 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] Community input sessions as they felt the general public needs a pipeline into the MAC. She stated that this would help to provide recommendations and work as an advisory to the P&E. She stated that a big issue, that needs to be addressed as a parallel recommendation, is to have a real proposal on how this would operate. Chair Beaty clarified that the meetings would be on a quarterly basis. Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Ms. Smith stated there are several avenues of communication available to the public and reviewed with the Commission. She explained that City’s can take action and those Cities surrounding the MAC would have representation on the committee and they would have accountability for their actions. She further explained that each Community Representative would be responsible for bringing forward their Community concerns and issues. City Administrator Lindberg asked how the Community Representatives would be chosen. Ms. Smith stated that the process would be up to each City and that they would need to identify one Representative and one Alternative. She stated that all represented Cities would have one seat on the Committee. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked about the venue for the meetings. Ms. Smith stated that the meetings would be held at the MAC building. Ms. Smith reviewed the concerns and issues with the Commission. She explained the process of representation to the Commission. She explained the rotation process adding that this would allow everyone to have an opportunity for representation. Chair Beaty asked how an at large community would be chosen. Ms. Smith stated that it would be done on a rotational basis and that it would be up to the Cities to determine. She explained that this would provide an opportunity to work on the larger issues and provide more of a metro-wide view versus one or two specific communities. She stated that the second issue was whether or not the meetings would be open or closed. She explained that ultimately the City said that the meetings had to be open and they did receive support from the MAC Staff on this issue. She clarified that they felt they should be available to the Citizens. She stated that they would have a general briefing prior to the actual meeting that would be a closed session. She explained that no business would be done during this period that it would only be an informational session. City Administrator Lindberg asked if minutes would be taken at the open meetings. Ms. Smith stated yes but not at the closed. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked what parameters would be set for discussion at the meetings. Ms. Smith clarified that only agenda items could be discussed. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked if they have decided on when the meetings would be held. Ms. Smith stated that they have started to discuss the schedule noting that it would be held during a weekday. She reviewed the options with the Commission adding that they would need to have a public forum before making a decision. Ms Smith stated that the airlines are going to try to determine who would fill their seat noting that after the internal work is completed they would send out a final draft for review. She stated that they would then go through a public hearing process within the Communities to essentially accept the draft and to appoint representatives. City Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Administrator Lindberg asked if it has to go to the P&E for review before going out to the Community. Ms. Smith confirmed stating that it would go through the P&E, to the MAC, and out to the Community from the MAC. Chair Beaty asked what would be considered an outlying City. Ms. Smith stated Cities 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] such as Burnsville, Inver Grove Heights or Apple Valley would be considered outlying Cities. Ms. Smith stated that public forum was an issue that includes a need for follow through. She stated that one item that has happened is that some of the policies, or intent, that came from the MASAC, has been circumvented by the Airlines lease process. She explained that lease negotiations are private between the parties noting that some of the policies provided by the MAC have been diluted with this process. She stated that they would like a commitment from MAC that when they form a policy that it must come before them. Chair Beaty asked if this would be acceptable to the MAC. Ms. Smith stated that she did not know and expressed the hope that it would provide them with strength in their negotiation position. City Administrator Lindberg clarified that the public meeting would be separate. Ms. Smith confirmed it would be a separate meeting that would be held in the evening and conducted by the MAC Staff. She stated that it is important to have a member from the new group also in attendance. City Administrator Lindberg clarified, to the Commission, her understanding that this is where members of the Community would come, to this new group, to air their concerns, whereas in the past it was the MASAC. Chair Beaty clarified that the at-large Community would rotate every other year. Ms. Smith confirmed. Chair Beaty asked if any concerns were expressed that the at-large membership would be only for one year. Ms. Smith explained that the length of membership was reviewed and it was determined that this would be the best option. Commissioner Fitzer suggested that both attend yet only one voice adding that this would be a good training for those involved. City Administrator Lindberg expressed concerns stating that the only thing she could see that could draw negative attention would be the closed meeting held prior to the regular meeting. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that he finds the viewpoint of the MASAC, from both sides, very interesting. He stated that both the Airlines and the Public thought the deck was stacked against them. He explained that there were many statements made from Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission the Airlines that this is nothing more than a Community Advocacy group noting that from a public perspective they felt the same way in that it was stacked with Airlines membership. He stated that there is no way around this kind of issue adding that this is such a quantum leap over what they have now, which is nothing. City Administrator Lindberg stated that this issue was discussed at great length noting that most feel that this is absolutely better than having nothing. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they have definitely outlined a format, including Internet access, which would provide the potential for shorter, more productive meetings. Administrative Assistant Hollister clarified that this Committee would not have Subcommittees. Ms. Smith confirmed stating that Subcommittees are no longer necessary with the changes. City Administrator Lindberg asked when the next MASAC Municipal Caucus would be 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] held. Ms. Smith explained that they might not hold a meeting stating that they are considering doing it through the email. C. NDCTV Request to Cablecast and /Videotape ARC Meetings Chair Beaty asked the Commission for feedback as to whether they want the Airport Relations Commission meetings televised. Commissioner Leuman stated that they receive minimal public feedback. Commissioner Edstrom agreed stating that their meetings are more of an informal structure. Commissioner Fitzer agreed stating that if more individuals attended the meetings it would make more sense to televise. Chair Beaty added that if the meetings were televised that it might elicit more attention and involvement from the Public. Commissioner Fitzer asked if they really want that kind of exposure. Commissioner Edstrom agreed stating that the structure of their meetings is more relaxed and provides an avenue to express their thoughts. He stated that it would dramatically change the protocol of the meeting and what would be said, as it would be in a public format. Administrative Assistant Hollister stated that they posed the same question to the Park Commission adding that they were neutral on the subject. He stated that they might try it next month on a trial basis. He agreed that it does make a difference on how issues are addressed and discussed adding that it would change the context of the meetings. A motion was made by Commissioner Leuman, seconded by Commissioner Edstrom, to decline the taping of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Committee Meetings. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried. Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission D. Rogers Lake East/Letter from Jeff Hamel City Administrator Lindberg stated that all conversations and communications between the MAC and the Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee are now between their lawyers. She explained that the Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee is now considering legal actions and suggested reviewing the information for discussion at the next meeting. E. Airport Noise Plan of Action City Administrator Lindberg reviewed the revised draft document with the Commission. Administrative Assistant Hollister asked for further clarification of the process noting the due dates for planning reports. City Administrator Lindberg clarified that the City would bring to the ARC potential issues for discussion and make the Commission would make decisions on how to proceed as a group. Ms. Smith clarified that the airport is concerned about noise issues and complaints. She stated that when buildings are built, within certain noise contours in Mendota Heights, they are insulated based on Metropolitan Council Standards. She stated that this has gone on for a long time adding that these structures would never be eligible for Part 150 since this was already taken care of and asked why this is coming up now. Chair Beaty clarified that it is more an issue with respect to the quality of life not just about individuals who are indoors all the time. He stated that it is very difficult to understand the magnitude of what it is like outside unless you experience the impact on a daily basis. Ms. Smith clarified that in principal this is being addressed in the Part 150 by the MAC. She further clarified that quality of life is not part of the process. Commissioner Edstrom stated that this issue involves more communication so that the 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM] newer Residents of the Community have a better understanding of the noise impacts. Ms. Smith clarified that the structures recommended by the City right now are multi-family versus single-family. Commissioner Edstrom agreed and expressed concerns that the multi-family is being promoted with a view and decks, which encourages enjoyment of the outdoors noting that the MAC is not for this. Ms. Smith asked how things are going with Augustus Shores. Chair Beaty stated that they are buying but they are also starting to receive complaints from the Residents. Ms. Smith asked if there is anything that the Residents are expected to sign. Commissioner Edstrom clarified that they do have forms that they sign acknowledging their understanding of the level of noise adding that most do not realize how loud it truly is until they move in. City Administrator Lindberg clarified the verbiage changes with the Commission and the Commission agreed to the recommended changes in the revised document. Commission Meeting – April 10, 2002 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission Ms. Smith suggested monitoring the volume at the airport and the volume coming off as the percentages will be changing. City Administrator Lindberg asked if these should be included in issues to be monitored. The Commission agreed to include the item as a part of the takeoff and departures. Commissioner Edstrom stated that one issue identified from their last discussion that needs to be included involved documenting procedures that would assist the Commission in working with complaints from Citizens. Chair Beaty agreed that they should set up some type of procedural document that deals with how they would work with Resident complaints. The Commission determined that this issue should be included as a Medium Priority. City Administrator Lindberg committed incorporating the recommended changes and would include the final draft in the next meeting packet for their review at the next meeting. ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence: a. Letter from Chad Leqve, Metropolitan Airports Commission to Administrator Lindberg, dated March 15, 2002. b. WHAT’S NEW at the MAC Aviation Noise and Satellite Programs. c. Airport Noise Reports. d. NSP Noise News e. Regular Meeting Eagan Airport Relations Commission Meeting Agenda for April 9, 2002. OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS City Administrator Lindberg stated that she would not be at the next meeting due to a conflict in her schedule. She stated that the next meeting is scheduled for May 8, 2002. ADJOURNMENT A motion was made by Commissioner Fitzer, seconded by Commissioner Edstrom, to adjourn the meeting at 9:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Bonita Sullivan TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc. 2002-04-10 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:27:58 PM]