2005-04-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes2005-04-13 Airport Relations Commission Minutes.txt[1/25/2018 4:19:07 PM]
- 1 - CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES April 13, 2005 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on
Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 7:00 p.m., in the Large Conference Room at City Hall,
1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights, Minnesota.
The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Vern Edstrom, Brian Linnihan, Liz Petschel, Mike Povolny, and Ellsworth Stein. Staff present; Jim Danielson, City Administrator; Ultan Duggan, NOC Representative/City Council Member, Sandra Krebsbach, NOC Representative/City Council Member and Bonita Sullivan, Recorder. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes. Not Present: Commissioner John Roszak.
Approval of Minutes
A. March 9, 2005 Minutes Minutes were not available for the Commissioners to review. The minutes will be reviewed and motioned on at the next ARC meeting. Public Comments
NONE
Unfinished/New Business
A. MSP Corridor Definitions Ms. Smith provided the Commission with a brief history of the MASAC stating that she joined in the early 90’s during a time when the atmosphere between Cities was tense with respect to air noise. She referenced the preferred runway system noting that it was easy for the rest of the Twin Cities to embrace, as it was before development of the southeast and the thought was that it would not impact the residents. She stated that a Tower Order
was put in place setting the southern limit of the corridor noting that the corridor has
ultimately evolved to what it is today. She stated, to the credit of the Cities working on
air noise issues, the Airport has found a force to deal with. She reviewed the changes in
staff at the MAC noting that Mr. Leqve and Mr. Fuhrman are great to work with, as they are both supportive and forthcoming. She stated that it is very encouraging to see that the Airlines and the Cities represented by the NOC are joined together to work on the air noise issues. She clarified that her intent is to ensure that the members of the ARC are Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission - 2 - aware that this is a very delicate balancing act and when the City of Mendota Heights
evaluates issues to be very specific and diligent in voicing their concerns.
Council Member Duggan agreed stating that interesting changes could be brought about
as more Communities continue to work together and communicate with each other. Ms. Smith suggested monitoring the total flights out of the airport noting that the airport is protecting their level of capacity. She explained that this is based on a model and when MASAC was operating the worked very hard to the MAC to utilize the ANOM data. Council Member Krebsbach stated that one of the biggest objections is because it is in the
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safety zone of the third parallel runway. Ms. Smith indicated that a contract was negotiated with the MAC that states that a third north parallel would not be built until 2050 and if one is built there are certain procedures that would have to be followed. Council Member Duggan stated that he recently received a survey from Mr. Boyven,
appointee from Minneapolis. He asked City Administrator Danielson to contact Mr.
Boyven for copies of the survey and provide to the ARC Commissioners for their review.
Council Member Krebsbach stated that she does believe that progress has been made. She was at the NOC meeting asking for support from the NOC to approach the FAA to request definition of the corridor out over Highway 110. Chair Beaty asked if there is anything that the NOC or ARC could do to lobby for support.
Council Member Duggan indicated that Jack Huber would like to attend an ARC meeting
and talk with the Commission. He noted that Mr. Huber has some insights on how to
work with the FAA.
Ms. Smith suggested Steve Orfield, Orfield Labs in south Minneapolis, noting that Mr. Orfield is a sound specialist who is very interested in the air/noise issues. She stated that he would be a very good resource on air and noise issues. Commissioner Edstrom noted that there has been a turnaround in feelings with respect to the 090-degree heading at the ending of Runway 12L since the ARC meeting with Mr.
Leqve. Council Member Krebsbach agreed stating that the March NOC meeting was a
very productive meeting. She stated that the points raised by the ARC helped to provide
Mr. Leqve with the information needed to accomplish the changes. She suggested
inviting Mr. Leqve to the next ARC meeting and also issue a letter of thanks for helping with the 090 changes. Chair Beaty agreed noting that Mr. Leqve has expressed an interest in attending the next ARC meeting to present the 090-degree changes and suggested including the invite as part of the letter. Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission - 3 -
Council Member Duggan reviewed the recent lawsuit initiated by Mayor R. T. Rybak
stating that the Cities of Richfield and Eagan have agreed to participate, the City of
Bloomington has not made a decision yet and the City of Mendota Heights has decided not to be involved, as the issues outlined in the lawsuit do not apply. B. NOC Update Council Member Duggan stated that the meeting went well noting that Mr. Leqve has agreed to work with them on the issues.
Commissioner Petschel agreed adding that there was a unanimous vote to address the 090
from the end of the runway not at wheels up. She stated that complaints from the north
side have increased over number of complaints from the south side, which indicates an increase in flights over that area. She noted that most of the residents who purchased property north of Highway 110 did so because they did not think they would experience airport noise. Commissioner Povolny stated that he was interested to see that the results from a the NOC vote were unanimous. Council Member Duggan stated that this is what they plan to
monitor noting that they would probably have an update at the next NOC meeting.
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Council Member Duggan explained that the number of flights south are not documented adding that when all the noise from these flights are put together over a period of an hour, in a matter of seconds the noise levels are illegal and in violation of the noise laws. He indicated that no one has documented a cumulative observation. He suggested monitoring the flights over a window of time.
Ms. Smith clarified that the ANOM system measures the track but not the altitude, which
affects the noise levels. She stated that the ANOM facilities measure a degree of noise
but do not tell where or the altitude noting that she is not sure if these two elements of measurement have been brought together for analysis. Council Member Duggan suggested approaching the schools to determine if there would be any interest with science students participating in an area noise study as part of a science project. He stated that the ARC could invite the schools to create a science project that would span over a five-month period where students would monitor noise
levels at different times of the day. He stated that the study could include noise levels,
visual documentation of the plane’s location and the duration of the noise levels. He
stated that this would provide the City and the ARC with a physical record that would
support the claims and issues expressed by the City and Residents. Commissioner Povolny agreed that this would make for a good science project but expressed concerns that the accuracy of the information could easily be challenged. Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission - 4 - Council Member Duggan noted that the City has lived with the inaccuracies of their
information for a long time noting that the information that they could compile from the
study could provide them with a history that would provide documentation that would
corroborate and differentiate the complaints as to what was north and south of Highway
110. C. Airport Noise Plan of Action Chair Beaty stated that plan looks good noting that most of the update has been completed. He asked City Administrator Danielson to review pages three through seven.
Commissioner Petschel noted that they have never gone back to the beginning to
determine if the ANOM meters are actually located in the correct spots. She suggested
adding this to their list of goals.
Chair Beaty asked Council Member Duggan what he would like to accomplish. Council Member Duggan stated that he would like to see the Noise Level Study included as one of the ARC goals. He noted that the City of Mendota Heights has lived with the information and data provided by the MAC adding that this study could carry more respect if done by the youth of this Community.
Chair Beaty asked if there are actual laws dealing with noise levels. Commissioner
Povolny confirmed that there are noise laws in every community. Council Member
Duggan suggested that City Administrator Danielson contact the MPCA to request copies
of the noise laws and the process used to enforce them. He stated that the ARC should review and understand the information first and then approach the schools to determine any interest in the project. Commissioner Povolny stated that with today’s technology the City could easily monitor the noise levels themselves, with little cost to the City. Chair Beaty agreed that the ARC should review and understand the laws first before moving forward with anything else.
Commissioner Petschel referenced the potential costs and asked who would interpret the
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raw data gathered from the study. She asked if they have the software needed to interpret the data noting that if they do not have the software the information gathered wouldn’t mean a thing. Commissioner Povolny stated that he is currently working on a patent for a cabinet unit
that would be capable of measuring the noise levels and provide stats. He suggested
utilizing the units noting that they could easily monitor up to five units 24-hours a day.
He stated that he would be willing to donate six to eight of his units for the study noting
that the study would be a good way to test the equipment. He suggested starting with two to four units, monitor the data to see what they actually get and then determine if they should place up to four more units. Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission - 5 - City Administrator Danielson stated that he would get back with the MCPA to get copies of the noise laws. He suggested that the Commissioners review the noise level laws first
and then discuss the study further, once they have a better understanding of the laws.
Council Member Duggan suggested that they get the information and review first with the
intent to discuss the subject further at the next ARC meeting and make their decision at that time. Commissioner Petschel stated that this might not be the best time to begin a monitoring project like this, as the Runway 17-35 is scheduled to open in the fall timeframe, which would reduce the noise levels.
Commissioner Petschel noted that she was not aware that it was the City Council, not the
FAA that had designated the original locations for the ANOM meters. She suggested
including the review of current locations as one of their goals.
The Commissioners held a general discussion regarding the current locations and suggested several potential problem areas for the monitoring project. The Commission determined that there is a need to develop a specific plan that identifies what they want and what they are actually doing. The Commissioners held a general discussion and review of pages three through seven of
the Airport Noise Plan of Action.
• Commissioners agreed Issues 1, 2, 3.
• Agreed to use 9.3 as the percentage for operations in Item 2. o Chair Beaty noted that this would be used more for landings than takeoffs. He explained that there would be more takeoffs than landings on the new runway to the south. o Commissioner Petschel noted that Mendota Heights is roughly at 23 percent of the total operations and would see a reduction from that percentage when new runway opens.
• Head to Head terminology:
o Chair Beaty referenced the head to head terminology, noted the opportunity that
head to head is not used is when the new runway opens, which is in five months.
o Commissioner Petschel noted that Ms Green indicated that it could be subject to revamping once 17-35 opens. o Chair Beaty noted that it was thought that when the new runway opens they would not have to use the head to head anymore and suggested sending the letter in the June timeframe and ask them, via the NOC, to review. o Commissioner Edstrom suggested having Council Member Duggan carry this forward through the NOC.
o Commissioner Petschel suggested including Mr. Leqve in the discussion around
the crossing in the corridor at the next meeting.
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o City Administrator Danielson, clarified open items: Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission - 6 - • Discuss with Mr. Leqve and the MAC staff; • Discuss with NOC Representative;
• Negotiate, with assistance from the MAC, with the FAA.
• Chair Beaty referenced Stage 4 stating that it would be interesting to find out what
they have to do to the current Stage 3 planes to make them Stage 4. He asked if Item
4 is the request to Mr. Leqve to provide reports on a regular basis. He suggested including this item on the list of things to discuss with Mr. Leqve at the next ARC meeting. • Chair Beaty referenced Nighttime Restrictions. He stated that this is something to bring to Council Member Duggan or Commissioner Petschel to discuss with the NOC. o Commissioner Petschel noted that this is intended as a monitoring situation.
o Chair Beaty noted that the airport doesn’t necessarily have to restrict nighttime
flights as much as utilizing different runways. Could suggest headings and
runways for use versus outlining a specific timeframe for flights.
• Item 9-Definitions. o Chair Beaty stated that Item 4 should be updated to state ‘090 at end of runway. He stated that the ARC should also work with the Tower to update the policy to change the heading to 090 at the end of the runway rather than at wheels up. • Item 10 – Legislative Oversight. o Chair Beaty asked who is monitoring the legislative bills. o Commissioner Petschel suggested combining Items 10 and 11. Chair Beaty noted he had given this some thought adding that they are two
separate items and reviewed with Commission. o Chair Beaty asked if the Commissioners have any bills
that the ARC would want
proposed. He noted that it would be interesting to invite Senator Oberstar to an
ARC meeting. o Commissioner Petschel suggested, as an action step, the ARC could discuss the possibilities of proposing a legislative change to the appointment process for the MAC with Metzen and Hanson. She explained that currently there is only one appointment that can be made to the MAC, by the Mayor of Minneapolis, that the Governor cannot change or touch. She expressed concerns stating that this is the only appointment at the MAC that is not a political appointment. She noted that
membership is top heavy with political appointees and there is not enough
knowledge or understanding amongst this group of the airport operations. She
stated that she would like to suggest a change in the appointment process and
membership to this organization. Chair Beaty agreed stating that it should be elected versus appointed. • Define capacity: o Chair Beaty asked how they would determine the parameters to define capacity. o City Administrator Danielson stated that they would need help from someone like Mr. Leqve. He asked if the ARC would want to ask them about the parameters after the new runway opens.
o Commissioner Edstrom suggested that they request the current parameters and
then again once the new runway opens. Commission Meeting April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport
Relations Commission
- 7 - • Item 14: o Commissioner Linnihan referenced the ANOM meter locations and asked if they are actually movable. o Commissioner Edstrom suggested changing the locations and update the terminology. o Chair Beaty suggested verifying if the ANOM meters can be moved; change locations and update the technology.
o Commissioner Stein stated that one of the Technical Reports included in the
packet references companies that make the software needed to interpret the data.
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He suggested researching the companies and software to see what it would involve with regards to costs. • Global Positioning Satellites: o Chair Beaty clarified that the wording would be added ‘to keep planes from flying over the residential areas of the City’. He clarified that the ARC wants to
advocate and encourage the MAC to continue moving forward on the GPS system
so that when they do use the system it would not be for raising capacity but rather
for noise abatement techniques.
o Commissioner Edstrom noted that this ties in with the idea of maintaining a standard track versus a heading. He suggested including this in parenthesis. o Commissioners clarified that the ARC could actually ask the AMM to lobby for various issues affecting Mendota Heights. o City Administrator Danielson indicated that the AMM sends surveys to the Cities and asks them for their input and feedback on what laws they want monitored and lobbied.
o The Commissioner asked City Administrator Danielson to forward the list sent by
the AMM for their review.
• Chair Beaty stated that he would like to see educational pieces regarding the airport
and airport issues included in the Highlights newsletter each month. He stated that he would like a regular communication to develop between the ARC and the Community that would provide the residents with updates on what is happening at the airport and how it could impact the community. o City Administrator Danielson stated that he has a draft already written. He stated that he would provide the Commissioners with a copy for their review and discussion at the next ARC meeting.
Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence:
The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents: Chair Beaty referenced the letter to Mayor Rybak regarding the lawsuit and asked why City Council decided to stay out of the lawsuit. City Administrator Danielson explained that the City of Minneapolis had asked the City of Mendota Heights to participate in the lawsuit noting that after reviewing the issues the City Council decided against it. He stated that initially the City of Minneapolis had said they would cover any costs involved
in the lawsuit but upon final analysis the only costs the City of Minneapolis agreed to Commission Meeting
April 13, 2005 Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
- 8 -
cover were for the Denver Attorney fees and that Mendota Heights' costs would not be covered. Second, Mendota Heights asked if the City of Minneapolis would indemnify and they said no; Third, the City of Mendota Heights was concerned that the lawsuit could have an impact on the opening of Runway 17-35; Fourth, the City of Mendota Heights has no actual standing in the lawsuit as none of the homes in Mendota Heights fall into the 60-65.
Chair Beaty stated that the reasons for the lawsuit are good ones and the City of Mendota
Heights should support the Cities that are involved and affected.
Commissioner Stein referenced the April 4, 2005 Airport Noise Report, Volume 17 noting that it provides an overview of the monitoring and flight tracking systems used in the San Francisco Bay area. Commissioner Petschel noted the individual doing round table is coming to Minnesota this summer to conduct a noise seminar. a. Email from Chad Leqve. b. Letter to Mayor Rybak.
c. February 2005 ANOM Technical Advisor’s Report.
d. February 2005 ANOM Eagan/Mendota Heights Departure Corridor Analysis
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e. Airport Noise Report, March 7, 2005 f. Airport Noise Report, March 21, 2005 g. Airport Noise Report, March 28, 2005 h. Airport Noise Report, April 4, 2005
NEXT AGENDA
• Burien, WA Airport Redevelopment Study
• Australian Air Noise Plan • Highlights Newsletter – Airport Article Review and Discussion • Chad Leqve – Provide Update on 090 Changes The Commission agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting at 9:40 p.m. Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
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