2003-02-12 Airport Relations Commission MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES
February 12, 2003
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on
Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 7:00 p.m., in the City Council chambers at City Hall,
1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights, Minnesota.
The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Liz Petschel, John Roszak,
Ellsworth Stein and Gregg Fitzer. Staff present: Cari Lindberg, City Administrator,
Patrick C. Hollister, Administrative Assistant; Also present were John Huber, Mayor;
Sandra Krebsbach, Council Member and NOC Representative; James Metzen, Senator;
Tom Pugh, State Representative; Guy Heide and Mike Kosel, Rogers Lake East Airport
Noise Reduction Committee; and Bonita Sullivan, Recorder. Ms. Sullivan took the
minutes.
Not Present: Commissioner Vern Edstrom and Jack Vitelli, Council Member and NOC
Representative.
Approval of Minutes
Approval of the January 8, 2003 minutes.
A motion was made by Commissioner Petschel, seconded by Commissioner Roszak to
approve the minutes for January 8, 2003 as presented. Motion carried 5-0.
Unfinished/New Business
A. Senator James Metzen and Representative Tom Pugh
Senator Metzen explained that he came to hear from the Airport Relations Commission
noting that he recently met with the Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction
Committee to hear their concerns. He stated that Representative Pugh has also arranged
for the Rogers Lake East group to meet with Attorney General Mike Hatch. He stated
that the Rogers Lake issues are an ongoing concern and would like to hear feedback from
the Airport Relations Commission with regards to what they should be doing to help.
Representative Pugh agreed with Senator Metzen, adding that this is their first step in
learning how to help. He stated that he had the opportunity to view the ARC video in
addition to meeting with Council Member Krebsbach, Council Member Vitelli and
Senator Metzen to discuss the development issues. He stated that the Rogers Lake
presentation was put together very well and was quite helpful in understanding the
concerns. He stated that they are available to help in whatever way is possible and asked
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Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
the Airport Relations Commission to keep them informed of the issues and their progress.
He stated that news travels quickly around the State Capitol noting that two days after the
Rogers Lake East presentation he was approached by a MAC lobbyist to discuss the
issues. He stated that the Rogers Lake East group put together a pretty good case adding
that it appears that the neighborhood should have been helped. He stated that it appears
that the neighborhood belongs in an area that should be getting help adding that they can
keep the pressure on and suggested assistance from Attorney General Mike Hatch.
Senator Metzen agreed stating that the presentation by Rogers Lake East Group is one the
best, most concise presentations he has seen.
Commissioner Petschel thanked Senator Metzen and Representative Pugh for their
support. She provided them with an overview of the grassroots organization of the group
stating that their tenacity as group, the quality of the research. and presentation clearly
shows that their concerns are valid. She stated that it is their belief that without their
support that this group would not have been taken seriously. She expressed gratitude to
both Senator Metzen and Representative Pugh for their assistance.
Senator Metzen asked if Commissioner McKasy has been helpful and supportive. Chair
Beaty stated that from the feedback they have received from Mr. Heide Commissioner
McKasy has been pretty responsive.
Commissioner Roszak asked if there has been any activity in the Legislature regarding the
MAC or the airport. Senator Metzen stated that they have not seen anything specific.
Representative Pugh explained that it is very difficult to get a feel for certain issues until
it has been introduced as a bill adding that in the future they would monitor the MAC and
airport issues.
City Administrator Lindberg noted that towards the end of the legislative session there
was considerable discussion regarding the reporting structure as it relates to the MAC.
She explained that the discussion involved the MAC reporting to MnDOT adding that no
decisions had been made before the legislative session ended.
Commissioner Petschel agreed that the Rogers Lake East Group has a very good case.
She explained that the issues ARC finds most disturbing are the noise levels, the lack of
dollars spent for insulation and the changes in flight patterns. She expressed concerns
stating that if their numbers do turn out to be correct that they would have very serious
issues, in addition to the insulation issues, that should be addressed. Representative Pugh
agreed adding that the MAC should not be arbitrarily drawing the lines.
Chair Beaty explained that understanding airport issues involve a huge learning curve
adding that it takes a long time to sort it all out. He stated that this is an incredible
accomplishment coming from a grassroots organization adding that the Airport Relations
Commission wants to work together with both Senator Metzen and Representative Pugh
in addressing these issues. He encouraged them to provide the ARC with suggestions and
ideas that would help the ARC keep them informed of ongoing issues.
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Commissioner Petschel suggested forwarding them copies of the ARC minutes.
Representative Pugh agreed that there is a large learning curve adding that this is a
relatively new issue for him. Senator Metzen suggested contacting Senator Oberstar
noting his work with the FAA. Commissioner Roszak agreed stating that there several
significant issues coming out of the FAA. He clarified that they are not looking to
insulate all of Mendota Heights stating that their goal is to have a fair and equitable
distribution of the program.
Chair Beaty agreed stating that in its present state it is not an equitable distribution.
Commissioner Fitzer reviewed the changes in the nighttime flight patterns and corridor
with the Senator Metzen and Representative Pugh.
Commissioner Petschel expressed concerns regarding the simultaneous take -offs and
reviewed the areas affected with the Senator Metzen and Representative Pugh.
Chair Beaty explained that capacity is also an issue stating that the airport's goal is to try
to get as many planes out in the shortest amount of time possible.
Commissioner Stein stated that since the restructuring of MASAC, almost a year ago,
representatives from the carriers and neighborhoods have yet to be appointed and he
asked why they are dragging their feet. City Administrator Lindberg stated that she has
background information on the formation and structure process. She stated that she
would forward that information to Senator Metzen, Representative Pugh for their review.
Mr. Kosel referenced the increase in nighttime flights and reviewed his understanding of
the original restrictions with the Commission.
Senator Metzen stated that they would continue to monitor the issues and asked the
Commission to keep them informed of their progress.
B. Mayor John Huber — Introduction of Mike Povolny
Mayor Huber introduced Mike Povolny to the Airport Relations Commission. He
explained that Mr. Povolny would be the newest member of the Commission noting that
it has not been officially announced. He provided the Commission with an overview of
Mr. Povolny's background. He stated that Mr. Povolny reviewed much of the
Commission's information and expressed his interest in working with the ARC
Commission.
Mr. Povolny stated that he has reviewed much of the Airport Relations Commission
information adding that their issues were very interesting. He stated that he has much to
learn adding that he is looking forward to helping the people of Mendota Heights.
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C. Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee
Mike Kosel provided the Commission with a historical overview of the Rogers Lake East
Airport Noise Reduction Committee. He explained that a significant change began to
happen in 1990 and reviewed the changes with the Commission. He stated that the
Rogers Lake East neighborhood is in the 65 -decibel range area and provided a map of the
area for the Commission's review.
Guy Heide explained that the Metropolitan Airport Commission was the source for
approximately 99% of the data they used for their research. He stated that they spent two
years researching these issues and their intent is to pursue this to a decision. He
explained that it involves two issues: the implementation of the new runway system and
the Part 150 Update. He explained that under Minnesota law the Metropolitan Airport
Commission and its Commissioners have the power to conduct investigations in the form
of hearings open to public. He reviewed the process with the Commission. He
referenced a rough draft letter that has been written, addressed to Commissioner McKasy,
addressing these concerns and reviewed the content of the draft letter with the
Commission.
Mr. Heide referenced the RUS (Runway Use System) and explained to the Commission
that this process determines how the planes come in and out of the airport. He fin-ther
explained that the RUS are the directions used by the Air Traffic Control Tower to bring
the planes in. He explained that this is what sets the noise footprint and reviewed the
contours with the Commission. He reviewed the 65, 70 and 75 DNL Contours, the
Preferential Runway Use System and how it operates with the Commission. He provided
the Commission with an overview of the timeline of events stating that it is their belief
that in 1991, when the RUS was implemented, it was at this point in time that their homes
were moved into the 65 DNL Contour. He reviewed the FAA requirements, the RUS
Test Noise Exposure Map and RUS test locations with the Commission. He explained
that the RUS was supposed to decrease the noise stating that after researching the area it
was found to have actually increased noise over the Minneapolis area.
Mayor Huber referenced Attachment E and asked where this was found. Mr. Heide stated
that Attachment E came from a manual published in 1989 that included the map and
documentation for the RUS test.
Council Member Krebsbach clarified that the "terms of average" are assuming the
average monthly overflights are for a three-month period. Mr. Heide clarified his
understanding of the calculations used to determine the RUS. Mr. Kosel further clarified
that the RUS tests were hand -counted reports for the arrivals and takeoffs.
Mr. Heide explained that for the PRS results they used the months of November and
December 1987 and January 1988. He reviewed how the MAC seems to have inflated
the contour with the Commission. He further explained that on January 11, 1990 the
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Commission published the hearing results. He referenced Exhibit H and asked that the
Commission compare it to Exhibit F. He stated that it was revised after the last public
hearing held on February 8, 1990. He referenced several changes and reviewed them with
the Commission.
Council Member Krebsbach asked if there was anything said at the hearing that would
cause them to revise the information. She asked if they found anything that provided
reasons for the changes. Mr. Heide stated that there was nothing found in the hearing
report that explained the reasons for the changes.
Mr. Kosel stated that many of the documents are available for review at the Eagan library.
He stated that documents for the period covering the 1970's are not available at the Eagan
library noting that they found them available at the Legislative library. He stated that
getting the documents is a very slow process.
Mr. Heide reviewed the 1991 contour with the Commission and pointed out that it
appears that the MAC took noise from one area and moved it to another in order to make
some months look higher and the RUS look lower. He referenced the population
numbers for 1991 stating that they published 3 0,3 70 as the population. He reviewed the
numbers with the Commission noting that the populations for both South Minneapolis
and Mendota Heights increased which means the reduction of 2,467 is not correct.
Mr. Heide referenced the hearing officer's report and reviewed the content with the
Commission. He referenced the map for 1992 and reviewed the expansion of the RUS
area with the Commission. He explained that they had six RUS Noise Test monitoring
sites stating that none of the test locations were in Mendota Heights. He further
explained that the report shows a reference to the noise monitor results that states the
majority of traffic goes into the Eagan/Mendota Heights corridor. He asked how not
placing a monitor in this area could be explained. He stated that if the majority of the
noise is in this area, wouldn't you place a noise monitor in this area. He clarified their
strategy to the Commission stating that it is their intent to send a letter to Commissioner
McKasy requesting an investigation. He stated that if they do not get a response from
Commissioner McKasy it is their intent to forward the request to Attorney General Mike
Hatch. He stated that they have met with Mark Dayton's office adding that his staff has
offered to assist if the FAA is less than responsive to their request for investigation.
Commissioner Petschel stated this is the portion she finds most disturbing noting that the
MAC must have known, every month that the operations were increasing. She explained
that they were not putting as many flights off to Bloomington and did this repeatedly over
a period of years. She stated that there was no form of quality control and they knew that
the map was inaccurate. She stated that it looks like the MAC knew they were not
insulating the homes that were entitled to insulation. She stated that the maps could have
been updated, very honestly and they did not do it.
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Mr. Heide stated that 1987 is when the initial Part 150 Study began. He provided the
Commission with an overview noting that they revised the study results in March of
1992. He stated that the FAA did not accept the revised maps adding that in September
1993 the MAC submitted the revised maps presently being used.
Mayor Huber clarified his understanding stating that the Part 150 map is a forecast of
what it looks like five years out and asked if the forecast was based on what they claimed
from the RUS. Mr. Heide stated no, and clarified further for the Commission. Mr. Kosel
further clarified the map revisions for the Commission stating that they are still living by -
the map that was first rejected by the FAA. Mr. Heide stated that in October 1993 the
MAC changed and adopted the Alternative lA Map noting that the Rogers Lake area was
included in the area. He stated that they are including this as part of their request for
investigation.
Chair Beaty clarified their reason for inviting members of Council was to give them an
opportunity to become familiar with the issues. He stated that they would like to ask that
City Council forward a letter supporting their request to investigate potential errors in the
contour maps. He stated that sound attenuation should have been done in areas of
Mendota Heights.
Commissioner Petschel clarified that it is not their intent for Council to do.due diligence
or investigate. She referenced their resolution asking Council to investigate and respond
stating that this group has never received an adequate response. She emphasized that the
Airport Relations Commission is not asking to Council to decide what is right or wrong.
She explained that they are asking for their support in requesting an investigation into the
issues. She explained that the Rogers Lake East Group just wants the MAC to
acknowledge their mistake and move forward. She further explained that the Rogers
Lake East group had received non-responsive letters, threatening letters and slow
response in providing documentation.
Council Member Krebsbach acknowledged their concerns stating that she and Council
Member Vitelli attended a meeting to hear the issues. She acknowledged that Mr. Heide
does have new exhibits and referenced a letter issued by Council. Commissioner Petschel
acknowledged the letter from Council stating that the letter did not give any expectation
for response from them.
Mr. Heide provided Council Member Krebsbach and Mayor Huber with an overview of
the sequence of events that prompted the Rogers Lake East group to move forward with
their allegations and their request for support from the Council and the Commission.
Council Member Krebsbach clarified that Rogers Lake East has engaged Senator Dayton
in addition to having the option to contact Attorney General Hatch if necessary. She
emphasized that it is not Council's role to judge. She asked for further clarification on
what the group expects from City Council. Mr. Heide explained that the presentation was
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informational for the Council. He stated that they would provide Council with a copy of
the final letter noting that exhibits would be included with the letter.
City Administrator Lindberg asked Mr. Heide if they are asking Council for a letter of
support. Mr. Heide confirmed that they were and requested that they address the letter to
Commissioner McKasy or Vickie Grunseth.
Commissioner Roszak clarified that this investigation ought to be done by the appropriate
party, which is the MAC. He stated that they should have the opportunity to review the
information adding that they should not wait for legislative support or support from the
Attorney General.
Mr. Kosel stated that they have already done this. He stated that they want a response
from the MAC as a whole not from their Attorney. He stated that the comment they
received from their Attorney was that this was a total misrepresentation of the facts yet
99% of the information used came from the MAC.
Council Member Krebsbach stated that in terms of discussion she does not consider this
to be the final meeting and suggested a meeting with Commissioner McKasy.
Commissioner Petschel re -stated that they are not asking Council to speculate or pass
judgement. She suggested that Council review the information and Commissioner
Roszak's recommendation. She stated that a letter of support has to go from the City to
the MAC adding that waiting to address this issue is wasting time. She stated that a copy
of the recommendation for investigation was included in their January packet. She stated
that she would like to reiterate that the letter from Council would be very helpful.
Commissioner Roszak further clarified the intent of the resolution from the ARC
perspective to Council Member Krebsbach and Mayor Huber.
Chair Beaty suggested all members of the City Council receive copies of their resolution.
Mayor Huber clarified that Commissioner Roszak believes one line of protocol would be
a letter from City Council to the MAC requesting an investigation of the information. He
asked ARC to further clarify what they want from Council.
Council Member Krebsbach clarified her understanding of the resolution and issues with
the Commission. She clarified that they want attention to the issues with an alternative to
make a recommendation to MAC to investigate. She asked if they should pursue this
with the Attorney General and encouraged the Rogers Lake East Group to meet with the
Attorney General. Commissioner Roszak stated that the meeting with the Attorney
General is parallel to the rest of this process. He clarified that all they are asking is that
the Council ask the MAC to investigate. He further clarified that how they investigate is
up to the MAC. He emphasized that all they are asking is for MAC to investigate the
issues.
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The Commission provided Council Member Krebsbach and Mayor Huber with copies of
the resolution for their review. She further stated that in the future anything submitted for
City Council consideration should require an ARC Commissioner be present at Council
meetings to clarify and further assist the Council in understanding the issues. She stated
that ARC resolution was clearly crafted without intent for due diligence by the Council.
She stated that it is a request for the MAC to investigate.
Council Member Krebsbach clarified the process the Council has already taken stating
that they already addressed the issues with a letter and met with Bert Mckasy.
Commissioner Petschel explained that the letter issued from Council was basically
useless. Mayor Huber clarified that the meeting with Bert Mckasy would not leave
impression that there was an expectation for response from the MAC.
Mayor Huber agreed that the issue has to go before the entire Council and restated his
understanding of what they would be requesting from the MAC. He asked where would
the history and information come from for Council to address. Commissioner Roszak
clarified stating that it would be up to the MAC to determine the investigation process.
City Administrator Lindberg stated that she could draft a letter for Council to review and
approve. Council Member Krebsbach asked City Administrator Lindberg to draft the
letter and provide for Council and City Attorney to review.
Commissioner Roszak noted that the key language of their resolution stated a' reasonable
showing of evidence of error' and further clarified their intent for Council Member
Krebsbach and Mayor Huber.
Mayor Huber suggested that they could be a bit more specific with respect to the RUS
activity. Commissioner Roszak disagreed stating that it should not be addressed in the
first letter. Council Member Krebsbach stated that the Council would need to know what
their letter content would include. Mr. Heide stated that they would forward a copy of
their draft letter addressing the RUS issues within the next week for Council to review.
He stated that their letter would go to all 14 Commissioners and Chair Grunseth. He
stated that the letter would be sent next week. He explained that a second letter
addressing the Part 150 issues would be issued separately. He clarified that they are
requesting specific items and explained the content of their request to the Commission.
City Administrator Lindberg suggested waiting until after Mr. Heide's letter is sent and
follow up with a letter of support from the City. Mayor Huber suggested allowing Chair
Grunseth an opportunity to respond before the City sends a letter to the MAC.
Commissioner Roszak stated that in his view they are not hand in glove with the
neighborhood noting Rogers Lake East has its cause of action and theories. He stated that
the ARC has the obligation to carry the request forward. He clarified that the perspective
brought forward to the Commission merits an investigation. He stated that if Council
chooses to move forward, based upon its advice from ARC and based upon information
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Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
presented by the Rogers Lake East Group, even if it goes no further, both ARC and the
City Council would be done.
Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports/Correspondence:
Commissioner Petschel referenced the letters from Rogers Lake and reiterated the
significance. She reviewed content of the letters with Commission.
Chair Beaty stated that the meeting notices for the MAC are not being received in a
timely manner and asked if there was a more timely way for the Commissioners to be
kept informed. He explained that this is in an effort to be sure there is representation.
City Administrator Lindberg stated that the MAC newsletter would be sent to the ARC
Commissioners from now on.
The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents:
a. Letter from Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to
Commissioner William Erhart, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated
January 11, 2003.
b. Letter from Rogers Lake East Airport Noise Reduction Committee to
Commissioner Bert McKasy, Metropolitan Airports Commission, dated
January 28, 2003.
C. First Quarter 2003 Minneapolis - St. Paul International Airport (MSP)
Noise Public Input Meeting.
d. Email Correspondence Regarding Meeting Notice.
e. December 2002 Eagan/Mendota Heights Departure Corridor Analysis.
f. December 2002 Technical Advisor's Report (draft).
g. Operations Comparison: December 2001 vs December 2002.
h. What's New at the MAC Aviation Noise and Satellite Programs.
i. Faxed Bulletins from Metropolitan Airports Commission.
j. Faxed Bulletin from N.O.I.S.E.
k. Article: "Clean Growth" Flight International 17-30 December 2002.
1. Airport Noise Reports
OTHER COMA1ENTS OR CONCERNS
Commissioner Petschel suggested including a reminder in meeting minutes to forward an
Executive Summary of the ARC minutes to the legislative representatives. She suggested
that Mike Povolny review the ARC video.
The Commission agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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