Loading...
2007-02-13 Parks and Rec Comm MinutesApproved CITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA PARKS AND RECREATION MEETING February 13, 2007 The February 2007 meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held on Tuesday, February 13, 2007, in the City Council Chambers at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. The following Commissioners were present: Acting Chair Paul Portz, Commissioners; Tom Kraus, Larry Craighead, Raymond Morris, Missie Hickey and Brian Hallman. Absent was Chair Richard Spicer. City Staff present were Teresa Gangelhoff, Recreation Programmer, Guy Kullander, Operations and Projects Coordinator, Jake Sedlacek Assistant to the City Administrator, and Recording Secretary Nancy Bauer. Acting Chair Paul Portz welcomed new Commissioner Brian Hallman. Commissioner Hallman gave a brief introduction of himself. He has lived in Mendota Heights since 1998, has two boys ages 7 and 11, utilizes our extensive trail system and is and his happy with the trails and parks facilities. MINUTES: Commissioner Craighead moved approval of the minutes and Commissioner Morris seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYES: 0 BALLFIELD OPEN HOUSE Acting Chair Portz said this was an open house to hear comments on possible improvements to the Civic Center and Hagstrom-King Park ball field improvements. Improvements under consideration at the Civic Center were moving the outfield fence in from its existing location, adding a batting cage and shelters over the players' benches. Mr. Kullander gave a brief presentation saying he brought the Commission request to hold on Open House to the City Council and they approved the concept of the improvements and Open House. 160 residents were mailed letters and three responses were received. No phone calls were received. An informational letter was posted on Mendota Heights Athletic Association's (MHAA) website. The coaches at St. Thomas and St. Joe's like the fences where they are and a couple of balls do go over the fence. Improvements considered were bringing the fence in closer, constructing a batting cage and building shelters over the players' benches. One thing that was not considered in the original cost estimate was the warning track and concrete force mowing strip. Approved Terry at Public Works reminded Mr. Kullander that an issue encountered at the Mendakota ball fields is - if there is a hole or gap where the fence meets the ag-lime the umpire can terminate the game for safety reasons. For maintenance and mowing purposes Terry Blum would like a concrete mowing strip underneath the fence. The mow strip would add a few more thousand dollars to the project. If the Commission wanted to do all the improvements at the Civic Center it would be approximately $53,000 and less at Hagstrom-King Park$ for about $43,000 these estimated costs include a 20% contingency fee. If we updated the Hagstrom-King Park for baseball use, MHAA would use the park on weeknights for baseball and softball. We looked at putting up safety netting to keep foul balls from going over. When I looked at it with the Parks Crew the pipes are a 3" pipe with a hood that is sagging. The pipes aren't strong enough to support netting. The backstops should be replaced. These and other factors added to the price of the improvements at Hagstrom-King Park. Commissioner Hickey asked if the electrical service and irrigation system modifications were because the fence was being moved. Mr. Kullander responded the current sprinkler heads are at the edge of the aglime and if the fence was moved, the irrigation system would be moved to the other side of the warning track. Electricity would be stubbed to the batting cage for the pitching machine. Commissioner Craighead asked if the old fence would be reused. Mr. Kullander replied it is not cost effective to reuse the old poles, and the fabric could be reused if it is in good shape. This fence is old and replacement of the fence fabric could be the best option. No residents attended the Open House. Mr. Kullander thought one issue might be parking at Hagstrom-King Park. Staff has never received complaints about parking from the neighborhood. St. Thomas and St. Joe's coaches expressed concerns regarding moving the fence closer at the Civic Center ball field. MHAA uses different requirements for outfield fence distances than what is considered the national standards. Commissioner Hallman said MHAA uses sanctions of Major League Baseball. Acting Chair Portz asked if the outfield fence at the Civic Center was at 265 feet. Mr. Kullander responded that the right field fence is at 260 feet and the centerfield fence is at 264 feet. MHAA requested the fence be moved in to 245 feet. Commissioner Hallman informed the Commission that a similar facility at Visitation had the out field fence at 225 feet and four feet high. Approved Mr. Kullander responded that the City uses 8 foot fences, because 6 feet is a hazard and 4 feet you could fall over. The fence, if replaced, would be 8 feet high. Commissioner Craighead asked if the fence would be moved in at 245 feet at all sides. Mr. Kullander responded that it would be located the same distance at all points. Commissioner Hickey asked Mr. Kullander what the positive and negatives were of moving in the fence. Mr. Kullander responded that at the 245 foot distance he saw no problem with this location and recommended we should go by the advice of the users — MHAA user of the facility. Commissioner Kraus asked about bat technology and what the projector of this was. Commission Hallman responded that each league has their own regulations for the specification of the bats. The big barrel has a wider circumference to allow a bigger pop and those bats are outlawed. Each age group has a foimula on the website where they list weight and length of the bat to come up with a number. Commissioner Kraus responded there is a limit to the bat because there would be an issue at every ball field. Commissioner Hallman said moving the fence in would add to the facility by adding a batting cage. That was part of the safety issue because kids warming up on the side of the field when infield playing is going on and balls are flying. Commissioner Morris commented that to do both parks at the same time, he does want to support MHAA, but there are other priorities such as the "you are here" signage are worthwhile doing. That is a modest cost. The bleacher pads can be combined with another project. My question is to upfront those costs because if they are more along the line as originally requested $18,000 to $35,000 and now it's $53,000 for two of them. Now we are looking at $53,000 for the Civic Center ball fields alone. I would be more inclined to do the improvements over two years. Maybe do one one year and the other the next year. We have a lot of other things we are supporting. Commissioner Hallman responded that the Civic Center is currently being used by MHAA traveling teams, St. Thomas and St. Joseph uses it for softball. Hagstrom-King is not a baseball field but with the improvement MHAA would use it for their other traveling teams. Baseball numbers have grown over the last 3-4 years and traveling baseball has picked up tremendously in numbers. We have gone from having four teams four years ago to 6 or 7 traveling teams. Having the home field advantage is getting to be a stretch. They use Civic Center and Visitation and could use a third location. Commissioner Morris said it is a matter of funding. We have a new development — Opus and the funding will not be received until late 2007. Page - 3 Approved Commissioner Morris continued that he would be inclined to do one field this year and maybe one next year and continue with playground improvements that are scheduled. Mr. Kullander responded that we could do parts of the improvements depending on what MHAA's priorities were. Commissioner Craighead wanted to know from Ms. Gangelhoff, if the other users such as men's adult softball had been solicited for comments and if they had any comments about moving the fence. Ms. Gangelhoff responded they don't play at the Civic Center and they say they wish the Mendakota fence was higher or back further. The only concern she heard was from the St. Thomas coach and he was worried if the fence was moved it would affect them and they would have no where to play. Commissioner Craighead asked what age group St. Thomas was. Ms. Gangelhoff responded 7th grade (12 year old) boys. Mr. Kullander responded that he went back and looked at the reservations for the previous four years and the only users were MHAA, St. Thomas and Joe's. Commissioner Craighead was concerned about the cost for the project. $53,000 was a lot more than when we started talking about the improvements. There are a lot of other priorities on the list for 2007 — 2009 and further out. When batting cages were only talked about and the cost was considerably less than what is being talked about now. With what I heard, I cannot accept that by moving the fence in 15 feet and spending that kind of money is cost justified when we have so many other projects in the city to do. The new fence is $8,000, new lime $5,000, concrete strip $4,000 and irrigation changes $3,000 and some for contingencies. That's a lot of money. Acting Chair Portz said he heard a lot of good comments. Commissioner Morris and Commissioner Craighead said costs are high. I think everyone feels that way. We went from $18,000 and $35,000 to close to $100,000. We had different comments about what we need right away. Is Hagstrom-King our priority to get baseball going? And what do we need at the Civic Center? We had feedback from the coaches at St. Thomas and St. Joes about not wanting the fences moved in. Commissioner Morris said it would be one thing if we had a funding stream that was rich and could support the things we want to do, but we have some serious challenges to our parks. Moving the fence 15 feet, I agree with Commissioner Craighead, that it is a lot of money for a 15 foot move, especially when we have input from another users of the field. I would want MHAA to go back and see what they really need now and what would be nice for later, if we were to have a windfall. We do have a lot of other things, trails in really bad shape, equipment in parks that needs to be replaced. Dave Vierling (MHAA Commissioner), from the audience, asked if they could put in the batting cage without moving the fence. Page - 4 Approved Mr. Kullander responded that they could not because there were no open spaces on the Civic Center site. Mr. Hallman said that moving the fence was requested not to create more home runs or change the field dimensions to affect play, but to create a safer environment for the teams that play there. The number one concern at the Civic Center is the foul ball going over the backstop and onto Victoria Curve and kids chasing the ball there. I understand the cost of moving the fence in and considering all that needs to be done to put in a batting cage may be high. I guess my question to the Commission is what the appropriate amount to spend is. There is a big difference between $0 and $90,000. Commissioner Craighead said he is guessing that the fence is going to cost $24,000 of the $53,000. That is half of the cost. If you do that for the other field it is more than half the cost. We are talking about $50,000 for two fields with fences. I have a hard time with that. Dave Vierling, from the audience, asked when was the last time money was spent of fields? Commissioner Craighead replied that we do a lot of work on the fields all summer long. I don't have a problem with putting in backstops higher like in Valley Park last fall. We are doing things to the backstop and I don't have a problem with that or having a batting cage there at the Civic Center ball field. I am having a problem with moving the fence 15 feet. Commissioner Morris said my question is for roughly that same amount of money we could upgrade one of the playgrounds or a playground and a half, which is something that is serious. We have wood that is splintering and it is old arsenic wood. I don't have any problems supporting this, if we had the money. We have a very limited amount of money and if we spend that down there is no guarantee that there will be any more. It may seem like we're not supportative but we are. It is a very difficult situation because we only have $200,000 in the Park Fund right now and we are almost dedicating half our bank fund to these two fields. I cannot see myself supporting that with all the other projects we have. I can see supporting some of it. The fund is at the lowest it has been in years. Commissioner Hallman said there would be an influx of cash from the new development at the Summit. I think we need to go back to MHAA and say what is a fair amount to spend on field improvements. They can then prioritize and see if they can live without the shelters above the dugouts. Commissioner Portz reported that what he is hearing is that $100,000 is too much money to spend. I don't think we know what is enough or too much. I've heard that we are thinking of doing one or the other field, or pick and choose what is really needed at Hagstrom -King Park and the Civic Center. I don't think we can decide that tonight. There should be discussion with MHAA, Commissioner Hallman and Mr. Kullander, saying what is really needed this year, how much is it going to cost, what can be put off for a year, and what can be done later. Commissioner Morris said what should be considered more than giving a dollar amount is defining what is more critical and what are the safety issues. Safety issues should come first and second should be critical issues. Things that would endanger any of the players I would support. Right now there a lot of things lumped together. I would to see things prioritized. Page - 5 Approved Commissioner Hallman replied that MHAA is asking for a small amount of things compared to when they first came in and has worked with the Commission to prioritize items. They did say these are top things. They have worked with the Commission to try to answer the Commission questions and work on a reasonable plan. Safety and numbers of people involved were taken into consideration. Don't think it hurts to go back and reevaluate it again and look at things but there was a fair amount of discussion. Commissioner Morris said that the first go around was over 6 million dollars and there was thought and process into this discussion. He appreciates and applauds MHAA for going back and looking at the issues. The Capital Improvement Plan has been used since August 2004 and $110,000 is planned for 2008 in projects, in 2009 $158,000 and in 2007 about 120,000 worth of projects and that is excluding MHAA requests. When you look at the money coming in in the future years from the developments, the development money is shrinking because the city is almost built out. We're not going to get much, if any in the future. Chair Spicer has been really protective of that fund because after 2009 we might not have much funding at all for any of the parks. Commissioner Hallman said the city should look at other funding mechanisms. Commissioner Craighead replied that has been discussed for years. Chair Spicer has been trying for years, as long as eight or nine years, trying to get signage for the parks for $6,000 and it still has not happened. We haven't been going out and throwing money away. Certainly safety features such as back stop netting, I can support. I don't have a problem with batting cages or shelters for better things. I don't know what else there is for safety that we haven't discussed yet. I haven't heard the fences currently in the outfield are unsafe. By eliminating the change in the fence we can save a lot of money. Commissioner Hallman said MHAA wanted to add a batting cage to the Civic Center and the only way to do that was to move in the fence which makes it a very expensive batting cage. Mr. Sedlacek said to answer the question from the audience last year in 2006 $25,000 was spent from the fund for ball field improvements. I'm a "newbee" to Mendota Heights and I'm not hearing in any of these discussions is what is the athletic association bringing to the project. What is the user of these facilities contribution to this project? It is new to Mendota Heights, but it is not uncommon for other cities in the metro area to contribute to improvement projects. Commissioner Hallman responded that other communities have a city funded recreational program, we do not. Ours is provided by a totally volunteer system that is funded for by itself. So we don't have any funds for improvements and we have the highest baseball fees of any community in the surrounding area. We barely have the funds for administrative costs, referees, umpires and uniforms. Our traveling baseball fees are over $300 per player, the highest of Eagan, West St. Paul, and Highland Park. Mr. Sedlacek said he believes that charitable gambling makes a difference. Burnsville, where he most recently worked, is a volunteer organization with no city funding. Page - 6 Approved Commissioner Craighead said there had been MHAA contributions of 50% to help fund improvements. At first he believed that the improvements could be made, but when it got up to $100,000 believed that it was not affordable. Mr. Kullander responded that the ball field was upgraded in 1999 and MHAA and contributed 50% of the funds over three yearly payments. Mr. Hallman asked how much the improvements were. Mr. Kullander responded that he believed the field upgrades at the Civic Center were under $20,000 and MHAA paid 50% over a three year period and they helped fund the batting cage at Mendakota Park which was $18,000. Commissioner Hallman responded there is charitable gambling in Mendota Heights for the Athletic Association and in 2006 $56,000 was raised. By the charter and the bylaws of the association it says a bulk of the money goes to the hockey program. To try to change the bylaws it would be too cumbersome. Of the $56,000 less than $1,000 goes to baseball. The charitable gambling money is not a resource for MHAA to use for capital improvements as it may have been in the past. Acting Chair Portz said the discussion of the fund was heard and understood that there was no capital from MHAA for the improvements. What we are seeing is a very large expense, more than what was originally in mind. The improvements should be prioritized on safety concerns. Commissioner Morris agreed with that idea. Commissioner Kraus agreed he also wants to take a look at prioritizing the items and see how the numbers break out. Safety issues are a matter of perception as well. A big part of moving the fence is to add batting cages for safety reasons because kids need to warm up and practice in an area that is safe. The question is "how unsafe is it?" There are degrees of safety. Arsenic in wood for playground equipment is a public safety issue. Commissioner Hallman agreed it was a good point. MHAA can't say that playground equipment isn't more important than backstops and vise versa. I think it would be fair to go back to MHAA find out what are their safety concerns are and prioritize the items. Commissioner Kraus said that in addition to that we would like to do this based on a safety risk scale of 0-10 with zero being completely safe and 10 being at risk for being seriously injured or killed. We may not be able to do ones but fives and above because of our dire fund situation. I think with MHAA and our other projects safety has to be our responsibility and then we have to do prioritization within the parameter of safety. We have to address the funding situation. Until we do we have to be very selective. Commissioner Morris replied that Opus is one of the last money streams for Mendota Heights' parks. It is unfair to do comparisons of other cities because Mendota Heights has the lowest taxes in the entire state and one of the reasons is some other towns in the twin cities area fund their parks through taxes. Ultimately, it is not our call to spend money, we make a recommendation to the City Council and they can vote down our recommendation. Page - 7 Approved It's one of the nice reasons I like living here - the taxes are low and it's a very high standard of living but there are compromises. Acting Chair Portz said there was good information and good discussion tonight and we are leaning towards getting items prioritized for safety. We feel that $100,000 is a lot to spend in one year. Mr. Kullander said he recommends that this discussion be continued at next month's meeting and volunteered to talk to commissioners from MHAA to set up priority safety items, and research other issues and concerns brought up the Commission. Commissioner Craighead asked if the batting cage was for batting or warming up pitchers. Mr. Kullander said that the batting cage was for hitters and that pitchers would also get a place for warming up. The Parks Crew said they could give them some pitching mounds on the back side of the batting cage and drop some netting down to stop balls from striking the fence. Commissioner Craighead said that if the warming up areas were down the right field line some teams won't like it and if it was down the left field line some teams wouldn't like that. If they want to warm up a pitcher mid-game that probably wouldn't happen. The safety issue is pre- game when people are using the batting cage. He would like to see some clarification. What is safety and what is it for? Acting Chair Portz recommended that a new list be brought to next months meeting to make decisions. RECREATION REPORT Teresa told the Commission that summer programs are in place. Brochures are going to the schools mid March and programs are listed in the next edition of the Heights Hilites. Acting Chair Portz remarked that the ice rinks finally look good. Teresa said it's the latest the rinks have ever opened. Commissioner Craighead thought this was the time they usually closed. Teresa said they're hoping to have them open until mid March. PAR 3 Robin Ehrlich and Sally Loberbaum gave a brief presentation on the Par 3. Mr. Ehrlich said the City Council at their last Council meeting passed a resolution for a referendum on April 24th to purchase the Par 3 and maintain the green space. The Par 3 gives a sense of community to the City of Mendota Heights. There are a lot of leagues that play there. It preserves our green space and adds to the quality of life. It will add to the property values in Mendota Heights. The referendum is for $2.79 million over 15 years. The golf course has an Page - 8 Approved appraised value of $3.5 million. The City would be buying it at a significant reduced rate. The homeowner should not see more than a $50 increase in their taxes per year. Revenues should offset the expenditures to run the golf course. The golf course does make some profit each year. Please help support the golf course referendum. If you would like to help out the next meeting is Monday night at City Hall at 7:00 P.M. We are looking for volunteers. We are also looking for financial contributions for lawn signs, posters, ect. Commissioner Hallman asked if the operating expenses versus revenues were known. Ms. Loberbaum said there is a chart showing the 10 year figures and showed it. There won't be a huge profit in running the golf course it looks like it will cost less to run. Mr. Ehrlich said that last year the revenues were $193,000 and the operating expenses were $161,000 with a profit of $30,000. Owners have not been doing much marketing in the last couple of years. Ms. Loberbaum said if the revenue goes to the Park Commission that would be a nice source of revenue. Commissioner Morris said $30,000 would replace most of a playground. Mr. Sedlacek said those figures are projected, does not include capital improvements and it isn't known if there will be any operating income. If there is operating income it would be a good problem. A business plan is forthcoming. Ms. Loberbaum said some current employees would like to continue working at the Par 3 which would be an advantage to the City. Commissioner Craighead asked if the golf course pays property taxes and if the City owned I then it would be taken off the expense side of the ledger. Mr. Ehrlich replied they pay about $6,000 a year. Mr. Kullander responded that it's classified as green acres and they get a break for maintaining it as green space. Mr. Ehrlich said that one of the objections of some residents it putting houses on the property. If developed that would be 19 lots. If the land were developed there would be about a .4% increase in the tax base. Commissioner Morris said one of our greatest resources is open land and he would personally support it. If the property and recreation area is lost this opportunity would never exist again. He wanted to know if there were other public Par 3s around. Mr. Sedlacek said there was in West. St. Paul, Burnsville and Inver Grove Heights. Commissioner Morris said it's a wonderful thing and a great resource. He applauds what they are doing. He would welcome a sign in his yard. Page - 9 ) Approved Acting Chair Portz agreed with Commissioner Morris' comments and its location for open space is critical because it's right in the heart of Mendota Heights. It's a good idea for Mendota Heights to keep the Par 3. In the long run it will make money, fund itself and help the property values of the whole community. Commissioner Morris said a few years ago there was talk of cross country skiing at the Par 3 and doesn't remember why that didn't happen. Ms. Loberbaum said that is being looked at. Mr. Kullander remembered it was all set up for cross country skiing and there wasn't enough snow. Commissioner Hallman asked if the golf course doesn't fly what happens then? Mr. Sedlacek said that the City will run it as a golf course and if it starts costing tax payer's money it would go before the Parks and Recreation Commission for recommendation to City Council with what to do with the property. Commissioner Kraus said that of the $2.79 million bond $2.06 million is for paying for the land. After the 15 year bond the City will own the land. If the business didn't work the City would have the land with minimal maintenance cost. Commissioner Craighead asked if the owners had any demographics on the players and how many people played golf there. Mr. Sedlacek said there was only one meeting with the supervisor of the golf course and that hadn't been discussed yet. Commissioner Hallman asked about the city sponsored golf leagues. Ms. Gangelhoff responded that golf leagues are the most registrations she receives. The junior golf league is really popular. Mr. Sedlacek recapped that the referendum is April 24th, with the same five polling places as the general election and polling hours are 7:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M. Absentee voting will start 30 days before the election. There is another citizen group meeting on February 22nd, we're not sure of the intent of that group. The City Council also approved a lease to open the course on time and to retain the golf leagues and lessons. TRAIL SEGEMENTS Mr. Kullander said the Commission took formal action on the Dodd Road and Highway 13 trail segments back in 2005. Consultants have been hired to do grant applications, survey work preliminary studies, feasibility reports, final plans and specifications. City Council has approved the work for these trails. The majority of the city money will come from State Aid Funds because the trails are on state roads. The Special Park Fund may be a funding source to pay for Page - 10 Approved my time and engineering inspections, about $25,000. The consultants finished up their survey work today. Both areas have hydrological problems with drainage ditches and retaining walls needed. The goal is to have the preliminary plans and costs done by February 28th• If not successful this year with the grant application we can reapply next year or the year after that. The maximum grant money is $100,000. Commissioner Kraus asked if each trail was considered a separate project with separate grants and if the State Aid Funds would be paid 50/50 for the consultants. Mr. Kullander responded yes. The two segments are: on Highway 13 from Opus to the bridge over Lilydale Road and Dodd Road to Marie Avenue and the other side of Ridge Place to Valley Park trail. Commissioner Craighead asked if there would be any safety concerns crossing the street from the west side of the most northerly portion to the east side of Dodd Road. Mr. Sedlacek than asked the Commission to consider signing a letter written by him in support of the grant and the Parks and Recreation chair to sign. Commissioner Kraus made a motion for Jake to write letters on behalf of the Parks and Recreation Commission to support the two trails on Highway 13 and Dodd Road and have the Chair sign the letter. Commissioner Craighead seconded the motion. AYES: 6 NAYES: 0 PILOT KNOB II Mr. Kullander updated the Parks Commission on the work being done for the Pilot Knob II site. Grants have been submitted to Dakota County for the funding to purchase the Pilot Knob II site. The City Council has also committed $400,000 towards the purchase of the property. Commissioner Morris said this is a historic view shed. Commissioner Kraus said that ecological features make it a valuable piece of land. Commission Morris said it had cultural, historical and prehistorical significance. 5 YEAR PLAN Acting Chair Portz asked if the 2007 Valley Park tennis courts funds were coming out of the Special Park Fund. Mr. Kullander responded that it was coming out the City Council's Park Maintenance Fund. Mr. Kullander rounded off the numbers in the 5 Year Plan especially the income. The income projections include the 60 town home development of LeMay Shores — assuming it goes ahead. Page - 11 ) Approved The City Council wants Staff and the Commission to look at City Facility Capital Needs for the next five or seven years in preparation for next year's City budget. He will make a list of 20-30 projects the Commission will need to prioritize. Acting Chair Portz said that looking at the budget you get a broad scope of things the Commission is responsible for such as the ball fields, trails, parks and all add value to the community. Mr. Kullander asked if the Commission wanted anything for next month's meeting in addition to MHAA's requests and the 5 Year Plan. Acting Chair Portz asked Mr. Sedlacek how Burnsville funded projects. Mr. Sedlacek responded he could look at how other associations are funded and look at what grants are out there. Commissioner Morris thinks that grants are an under utilized option, which makes funds go further. Commissioner Hallman believed the last project MHAA funded was from a Twins grant. Acting Chair Portz said if Mr. Sadlacek had any ideas for grants the Commission would like to hear about them next month. Commissioner Hickey asked if it was ruled out including the referendum money for other projects. Mr. Kullander responded that the City Council wanted it to be a one issue referendum. COMMISSION COMMENTS None. Acting Chair Portz wanted to thank Commissioner Hallman for attending his first meeting and complemented him on his good comments. Commissioner Kraus made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Commissioner Hallman seconded the motion. The meeting adjourned at 8:23 P.M. Page - 12