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2002-10-08 Parks and Rec Comm MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES OCTOBER 8, 2002 The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Parks and Recreation Commission was held on Tuesday, October 8, 2002 in the Council Chambers at City Hall, 1101 Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 6:30 p.m. The following Commissioners were present: Acting Chair Stan Linnell and Commissioners Larry Craighead, Paul Portz, Missie Hickey, and Dave Libra. Chair Richard Spicer and Commissioner Raymond Morris were excused from the meeting. City Staff present were Parks Project Manager Guy Kullander, Recreation Programmer Teresa Gangelhoff and Administrative Assistant Patrick C. Hollister. Mr. Hollister took the minutes. This meeting was televised by NDCTV and replayed the following Friday at 1:00 pm and 7:00 pm. MINUTES Commissioner Hickey moved to approve the September 12, 2002 minutes as written. Commissioner Portz seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING: SKATE PARK DEVELOPMENT IN FRIENDLY HILLS PARK The following residents were present in the audience for this discussion: Bernard P. Friel 750 Mohican Lane Michael Farley 697 Decorah Lane Steven Price 693 Decorah Lane Kim Price 693 Decorah Lane Mark Reichenbach 2209 Rogers Court Jordan Reichenbach 2209 Rogers Court Mary Melzarek 717 Navaho Lane Pat Larson 721 Navajo Lane Wayne D. Nylin 718 Navajo Lane Jennifer O'Neill -Mager 729 Mohican Lane Celeste Riley 1013 London Road Tim Meyers 2337 Swan Drive Dave Bauer John Huber Bob Engelhart Janis Aune 2381 Apache Court 1359 Cherry Hill Road 1011 Douglas Road 708 Decorah Lane Mr. Kullander introduced the issue of installing a temporary skateboard park on the paved surface of the hockey rink at Friendly Hills Park. Mr. Kullander also shared with the Commission the feedback he received about this issue over the phone (see attached.) Acting Chair Linnell asked how many signatures were on the earlier petition in favor of the skate park. Mr. Kullander said that it was his recollection that there were about 50 or 60 signatures on that petition. Acting Chair Linnell said that he had visited the Diffley skate park in Eagan and had not seen any problem with trash, delinquency, or noise. Acting Chair Linnell said that there was noise on the half -pipe, but that he did not consider it to be an annoyance. Mr. Kullander said that the Diffley park in Eagan had two to three times the amount of equipment than what he was proposing, and that the equipment could not be removed for roller hockey. Commissioner Craighead asked about the type of equipment that would be used. Mr. Kullander said that it would be steel equipment, such as the kind produced by a company called "Skateway ". Mr. Kullander said that other companies produced plywood products, but that they are not as good. Mr. Kullander also said that there is a bidden cost of maintenance because someone will have to go through the park daily to check on the condition of the ramps. Commissioner Craighead asked how many ramps would be involved. Mr. Kullander said that there would be two large ramps and three smaller ramps. Mr. Kullander said that because only a "Tier One" skatepark is, with jumps less than three feet in height, the LMC insurance does not require full -time supervision. Commissioner Portz asked if the cost of the skatepark would be about $24,000. Mr. Kullander said that that would be the cost as proposed, but that the number of ramps could be reduced to whatever cost level the Commission would like. Commissioner Libra asked Mr. Kullander how much lead -time he needed to order the equipment. 2 Mr. Kullander said that the equipment could be ordered within 2 months. Acting Chair Linnell then invited the residents in the audience to speak. Mr. Bernard P. Friel said that he is not in favor of the skate park at Friendly Hills. Mr. Friel said that he is concerned about the noise, and that skateparks make more offensive noise than, for example, a soccer game. Mr. Friel said that the neighborhood already suffers enough noise from airplanes. Mr. Friel said that he is also concerned about hours of operation, and that those hours could grow over a period of time. Mr. Friel said that someday lights could be installed which could potentially extend the use of the skatepark into the evening hours. Mr. Friel said that he was concerned about the possibility of hosting competitions in the skate park. Mr. Friel also asked what would happen to the in- line skaters that currently enjoy the park. Mr. Friel said that he already hears hockey pucks hitting the boards from his house. Acting Chair Linnell said that Mendota Heights had a long history of concern about lifts. Mr. Mark Reichenbach said that he is in favor of the skateboard park at Friendly Hills Park. Mr. Reichenbach said that the curbs in Mendakota Park are waxed because skateboards don't have anywhere else to go. Mr. Reichenbach said that as a Cubmaster/Den Leader of Pack 39 he knows that kids need a place to skateboard. Mr. Reichenbach said that as a parent he also thought that the skate park would be a great opportunity for youth and children. Mr. Reichenbach said that it would be nice to have a place that kids could either bike to or be dropped off in close proximity. Mr. Jordan Reichenbach said that he would use a skateboard park at Friendly Hills Park because now he has to go to Burnsville or Eagan. Mr. Reichenbach said that he would like to not have to go there. Mr. Tim Meyers said that he has designed skate parks in the past. Mr. Meyers said that the metal ramps shown in Mr. Kullander's example are loud and they hurt when you fall on them. Mr. Meyers said that other companies, such as True -Ride and Skate -Right use wood and plastic. Mr. Meyers said that just as the City builds soccer fields to help kids, they should build a skatepark to help kids. Mr. Meyers said that building the skate park would help remove damage from the sidewalks and curbs elsewhere. Mr. Bob Englehart said that he is Matt Englehart's father. Mr. Englehart said that his son could not be present at the meeting tonight because he was at the Twins game. Mr. Englehart read a statement from his son in favor of the skate park. Mr. Michael Farley said that he is opposed to the skate park in Friendly Hills Park. Mr. Farley said that he did not want his opposition to be interpreted as merely a "nimby" reaction. Mr. Farley said that installment of these ramps on the skating rink in Friendly Hills would displace more people than it would serve. Mr. Farley said that currently there are many people who use the rink for rollerblading and teaching their kids how to roller- 3 skate or even how to ride bicycles and tricycles. Mr. Farley said that even Friendly Hills Middle School uses the rink in the mornings. Mr. Farley said that by installing the ramps, the City would be converting the rink from a place used by a large number of people of all age groups to a small group of people in a narrow age band. Mr. Farley said that he suspected that $24,000 would not be enough to install the skatepark correctly and that maintenance and supervision would be significant ongoing costs. Mr. Farley said that it is not worth doing unless its done right, and that doing it right would cost too much. Mr. Farley said that there is already a growing traffic concern in the neighborhood and that Decorah has a dangerous blind curve. Mr. Farley said that it would therefore be unwise to encourage skateboarders to congregate in the area. Ms. Janis Aune said that she agreed with Mr. Farley about the traffic concerns. Mr. Aune said that Decorah Lane is a dangerous curve and that traffic speeds by at 30, 35, or 40 miles per hour. Ms. Aune said that she had advocated a stop sign at a Council meeting a while back. Ms. Aune said that there is already not enough parking for soccer games. Ms. Aune said that she would prefer to see the kids activities continue at the park. MS. Aune said that she is also concerned about the noise and that the skatepark should be in a different location away from residential neighborhoods. Ms. Aune said that there are no sidewalks along Decorah Avenue and that kids on skateboards would be a safety issue. Ms. Aune said that someone would also have to monitor and collect litter. Ms. Celeste Riley said that she was in favor of a skateboard park somewhere in Mendota Heights. Mr. Riley said that she had teenagers of her own, and that she thought that there was a need for this type of recreational facility. Mr. Wayne D Nylin said that he was against the skateboard park in Friendly Hills Park. Mr. Nylin said that he already hears hockey and basketball from the park at night and that he has had to call the police to break up basketball games at 11:00 at night. Mr. Nylin said that his son works at a skateboard ramp store and that the metal ramps are noisy. Mr. Nylin said that many parents would drop off their kids at the skateboard park and leave them there for hours. Mr. Nylin asked if the City was free from liability if someone gets hurt at the skateboard park. Mr. Nylin said that we are living in a litigious society, and that the taxpayers would ultimately have to pay for the defense against such a suit. Mr. Nylin said that in the case of the Diffley skate park in Eagan, there are not many houses by the park, but that in this case, the skatepark would be only fifteen steps from his house. Mr. Nylin said that he would like to have a buffer between the skateboard park and neighboring residents. Mr. Nylin said that he teaches at Northview Elementary and that there are not many houses by that skateboard park. Mr. Nylin said that the City should find another place for the skateboard park. Mr. Steve Price said that he agrees with the other neighbors who have spoken and that he is opposed to the skateboard park at Friendly Hills Park. Mr. Price said that he is not against any skateboard park, just this specific location. Mr. Price said that putting the ramps on the rink would eliminate the use by rollerbladers, hockey players, and little kids. Mr. Price said that the skateboard park should be at a different site, buffered away from 4 close neighbors. Mr. Price said that doing it right would probably cost more than $24,000. Mr. Meyers suggested that the skatepark be installed by the fire station or the police station. Mr. Meyers said that the skate park in Oakdale is behind the "cop shop" and that there are no complaints. Mr. Meyers said that the problem with the traffic objection is that bikers could also get hit by cars. Mr. Meyers suggested using Tru -Ride ramps because they would not have to be set up and taken down every year. Mr. Meyers said that there is a possibility of injury even if ramps are only three feet high. Mr. Meyers said that if a venue is not provided for skateboarders they will likely skate around the new Town Center. Mr. Meyers said that providing the skate park would make kids feel that they are listened to and make kids enjoy life more. Commissioner Portz commented that it is also possible for kids to get hurt playing softball. Ms. Jennifer O'Neill -Mager said that she is opposed to the skateboard park at Friendly Hills Park because of traffic, noise, and supervision issues. Ms. O'Neill -Mager said that she already doesn't want her kids to bike on the streets because of the traffic. Ms. O'Neill -Mager said that there is no buffer for the surrounding neighborhood to protect them from the noise. Ms. O'Neill -Mager said that there would be a lack of supervision unless parents supervise their own kids. Ms. Mary Melzarek said that she is against the skateboard park at Friendly Hills Park. Ms. Melzarek said that the hockey season is already quite loud. Ms. Melzarek said that she has lived there for eighteen years and that in the last three years she has had to call the cops more about after hours noise than in the previous fifteen years. Ms. Melzarek said that the rink is currently used by kids learning how to ride bikes, lunchtime hockey games and in -line skaters. Ms. Melzarek said that she is against the skateboard park because of noise, people, traffic, and litter. Mr. Pat Larson said that the City put the pavement in for in -line skaters and asked where they are supposed to go if the ramps are put in. Mr. Larson said that it would be better to put the rink in another area. Acting Chair Linnell said that he wished to offer some observations. Acting Chair Linnell said that the City does not have a 20 -30 acre park where this type of facility could be located away from all neighbors. Acting Chair Linnell said that he would like to have a facility where kids could enjoy skateboarding. Acting Chair Linnell said that while obviously the skatepark would displace roller hockey, it might still be possible to have in- line skating around the perimeter of the rink. As for traffic, Acting Chair Linnell said that people drive fast in his neighborhood also, and that traffic would be an issue at all parks, except perhaps at South Kensington Park. Acting Chair Linnell said that if the skate park were next to the water tower, then kids would cross Lexington Avenue to get to it. Acting Chair Linnell said that since it would only be a Tier One skatepark, it would not 5 attract many kids from outside the city, and that the City would not be advertising the park. Commissioner Portz said that by his figuring twelve people have spoken this evening on the subject and eight people are opposed to it. Commissioner Ports said that the City has six tennis courts, three hockey rinks, and many baseball and softball fields, and that there was a need for at least one skateboard park. Commissioner Portz said that while he does not live in Friendly Hills Park, his house, which he purchased 16 years ago, does back up against the soccer field of a local elementary school and that kids cut through his yard frequently. Mr. Meyer suggested that the Rogers Lake Park tennis court be converted to a skatepark because there are no neighbors in the area. Commissioner Libra moved to continue the discuss of the skateboard park to the November Parks and Recreation Commission meeting and to request that Staff attempt to contact the people on the pro - skateboard park petition to discuss this issue. Commissioner Hickey seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 RECREATION PROGRAMMER UPDATE Mr. Hollister asked Acting Chair Linnell to allow Ms. Gangelhoff to give her update early to allow her to return home to elevate her broken arm per doctor's orders. Acting Chair Linnell consented to the request. Ms. Gangelhoff provided an update on recreational activities. Ms. Gangelhoff also commented that she had discussed skateboard parks with Rich Dipple, the Parks Director in South Saint Paul. Ms. Gangelhoff said that Mr. Dipple told her that even their Tier One skateboard park eventually had to be supervised and that it has caused numerous problems for the Parks and Recreation Department, including sweeping puddles, sweeping litter, and checking ramps. Acting Chair Linnell then excused Ms. Gangelhoff from the remainder of the meeting. WENTWORTH PARK WARMING HOUSE Mr. Kullander said that the City Council directed him to look at alternate designs for a replacement warming house and to try to lower the project costs, down from $35,000.00 to the $20,000.00 range. Mr. Kullander said that he had previously developed working concept plans and estimated construction costs to arrive at the $35,000.00 estimate. Mr. 6 Kullander said that to better gauge "real world" costs he requested bids from three local contractors that specialize in the construction of garages and small building additions. Mr. Kullander said that he requested a bid for a "basic 110 frills" 24 ft. by 24 ft. building (standard two -car garage) that would fulfill the intended use as a seasonal warming house for skaters. Mr. Kullander provided the following Building Comparisons: 1. Proposed new warming house @ 24 ft. by 24 ft. = 576 sq. ft. 2. Old warming house (demolish) @ 14 ft. by 18 ft. = 252 sq. ft. 3. Friendly & Marie Houses @ 16 ft. by 28 ft. = 448 sq. ft. Mr. Kullander said that the proposed new warming house will be 25% larger then the remaining two in Friendly and Marie Parks, which have also been criticized as too small. Building / Project Description and Cost Estimates: 1. Build Building: Includes slab, building materials and labor $20,354.00 2. Demolish existing warming house — site grading $ 1,250.00 3. Electric $ 3,500.00 4. Heat and ventilation $ 2,500.00 5. Paint — caulk — concrete sealer $ 1,500.00 6. Site restoration $ 250.00 7. Asphalt path/walkways $ 2,750.00 8. Safety railings $ 500.00 9. Interior "security" chain -link fencing $ 750.00 10. Interior / exterior finishing $ 500.00 Estimated Total Project Costs = $33,854.00 Mr. Kullander said that if the Commission desires to build a new warming house they must convince the City Council that a budget of $20,000 is unrealistic. Mr. Kullander added that the Commission might want to discuss other alternates, such as: 1. Extend roof to provide outside shelter area to put on skates 2. Hire contractor on a "Time and materials" basis to enlarge existing house 3. Rent seasonal building — no capital outlay — all costs would be under park maintenance budget. Estimate cost at $5,000 plus 6 to 10 man -days. Commissioner Craighead moved to recommend Mr. Kullander's proposal to the Council for their next meeting. Commissioner Libra seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 7 RON CLARK CONSTRUCTION, GARRON AND ACACIA SITES CONCEPT PLAN FOR OWNER - OCCUPIED MULTI - FAMILY HOUSING Mr. Hollister said that Mr. Ron Clark and Mr. John Uban will appear before the Planning Commission at their regular meeting on October 22, 2002 to discuss their Concept Plan for owner- occupied multi - family housing on the Garron and Acacia sites on the north end of Pilot Knob Road. Mr. Hollister said that the proposed project is to construct a 165 -unit townhome development. Mr. Hollister said that the northwest portion (Garron) is currently zoned B -1A and is guided for high density residential, and the property located to the east (Acacia) is zoned R -3, and is guided for medium density residential. Mr. Hollister said that both the Parks and Recreation Commission and the Airports Relations Commission have previously requested copies of any development proposals in this area. Mr. Hollister added that the Airports Relations Commission will discuss this proposal on October 9, and that any Parks Commissioner who was interested in this issue could come to either the Airport Relations Commission meeting, the Planning Commission meeting, or the subsequent Council meeting. Commissioner Libra moved to recommend that the following revisions be made to the development concept for the Garron/Acacia site: 1. Space should be provided for an overlook accessible to the general public. The overlook could be placed on existing City Right -of -Way at the far north end of Pilot Knob Road and should feature a park bench and a monument. Some housing units may have to be moved to make use of this existing City right -of- way. As an alternative, the overlook could be placed in a different spot in exchange for vacating the right -of -way. If such as exchange is made, the land acquired by the City should be considered part of an even exchange and should not be counted as part of the parks contribution required by the development. 2. The Commission applauds the proposal as currently drawn to link the development to the Big Rivers Trail. The City should require that this linkage be provided, and that the general public have access to it. 3. The development should be enhanced by native vegetation suitable to the area, including a partial restoration of the woodlands that were removed within the last decade. 4. Public access should be ensured over all roads and trails. 5. The existing trail on the east side of Pilot Knob Road should be continued all the way from Acacia Boulevard to the above - mentioned public overlook and to the Big Rivers Trail. To the extent possible, all trails should be grade- separated. 8 Commissioner Portz seconded the motion. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 While not part of the formal motion, Acting Chair Linnell also said that he felt that the current plan featured too much impervious surface at 65 %. UPDATES Staff provided updates on the following items: • 2003 City Budget Request ® Police Report OTHER COMMENTS Acting Chair Linnell advised anyone watching on television not to leave valuables in their car as they enjoy our parks and trails because of a recent wave of thefts from cars. ADJOURN Motion made to adjourn by Libra and seconded by Portz. AYES: 5 NAYS: 0 The meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m. 9