2004-02-11 Airport Relations Commission MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES
February 11, 2004
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was held on
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 7:10 p.m., in the Large Conference Room at City Hall,
1101 Victoria Curve, Mendota Heights, Minnesota.
The following Commissioners were present: Scott Beaty, Liz Petschel, Mike Povolny,
John Roszak and Ellsworth Stein. Staff present: Jim Danielson, City Administrator; Jack
Vitelli, Council Member and NOC Representative; Sandra Krebsbach, Council Member
and NOC Representative; and Bonita Sullivan, Recorder. Ms. Sullivan took the minutes.
Not Present: Commissioners Vern Edstrom and Gregg Fitzer.
Approval of Minutes
None
Unfinished/New Business
A. Chad Leqve Presentation
Council Member Vitelli introduced Mr. Leqve stating that after last month's meeting with
ARC he decided to meet with Mr. Leqve to discuss some of the issues and concerns that
have been raised by the ARC. He explained that he suggested that Mr. Leqve attend
tonight to review the new contour maps and clarify any issues or concerns the
Commissioners might have. He further explained that Mr. Leqve would like to
understand their feelings and frustrations with respect to the MAC and urged the
Commission to be open and honest with Mr. Leqve. He stated that it is important for all
parties to work to a mutual point of trust in order to address issues and concerns in a
positive and construction manner. He stated that Mr. Leqve would also provide the
Commission with an update on the Part 150.
Chair Beaty indicated that Mr. Leqve has been in the business already for a number of
years and is quite aware of their concerns and the discontent in various Cities.
Mr. Leqve agreed stating that he prides himself on developing a good relationship with
the communities surrounding the airport. He explained that it is his job to help and assist
communities with airport issues. He stated that he was taken a bit aback by the
conversation he recently had with Council Member Vitelli and asked to the Commission
to be honest and provide him with feedback.
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
Commissioner Petschel clarified that Mr. Leqve is not this issue and that the ARC
Commission has never had issue with Mr. Leqve. She noted that the Commission has
been allowed to be very frank and honest in their discussions with Mr. Leqve adding that
their issues are with respect to the Eagan Agreement and Tower Order Change. She
stated that this was what began their distrust and noted that Mr. Leqve has no control over
those issues. She explained that circumstances occurred that negatively impacted
Mendota Heights where they had a runway system implemented without an
environmental impact study and the MAC denied it. She stated that this has been their
issue all along, never with Mr. Leqve.
Mr. Leqve stated that he wants to make sure, throughout the process, that as many issues
as is possible, are address. He encouraged the Commission to continue, as they move
forward, to be open and honest in their communications. He expressed his appreciation
for the open communication with the Commissioners and provided an overview of the
runway use.
Council Member Krebsbach asked Mr. Leqve if he felt his personal integrity was on the
table. Mr. Leqve stated no that he did not feel his integrity was being questioned. Chair
Beaty and Commissioner Petschel agreed stating that this is a business issue, not an issue
with Mr. Leqve or his integrity.
Council Member Vitelli clarified that he understood the issue was not with Mr. Leqve
noting that there are still problems to be addressed. He suggested that the Commission
work with Mr. Leqve to address these concerns to the MAC.
Commissioner Povolny asked Mr. Leqve to clarify the north boundaries noting that the
flights do not go south of the 12L.
Mr. Leqve reviewed the runway operations with the Commission. He acknowledged the
frustration and the move to get the north boundary traffic down. He explained that
Mendota Heights would go from the mid- twenty percent range down to nine percent after
the new runway opens. He noted that Mendota Heights would receive the biggest affect
and decrease of all communities surrounding the airport. He asked the Commissioners
what would be a reasonable way to move forward. He suggested an update of '07.
Commissioner Petschel stated that she would like to request a Percentages Report. She
stated that Augusta Shores is paying a lot of attention to this noting that the President of
the Association had written a letter asking when the 17 -35 would be completed.
Mr. Leqve stated that the numbers have been updated and reviewed the 2002 Base Case
Noise Contours with the Commission. He also provided an overview of the 2007
Unmitigated Noise Contours, the 2007 Mitigated Noise Contours, the 2007 Mitigated
Noise Contours as compared to 2005 Mitigated Noise Contours and the table including
draft counts of units that would be added for the Commission.
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
Council Member Krebsbach asked if these contour maps include the takeoffs over
Highway 110. Mr. Leqve clarified that it does take into account all takeoffs around the
airport and is consistent with the flight tracks in use. He explained that the DNL is an
average annualized day, which takes the information from a year and averages it to a day
activity.
Commissioner Povolny expressed concerns and indicated that the fanning over Mendota
Heights is not accurately reflected on the maps. Chair Beaty agreed stating that this is
also his concern.
Commissioner Petschel clarified that it does not address the 55 DNL and the only noise
contours shown on the map is the 60 DNL. Mr. Leqve agreed indicating that historically
they have not done anything with the 55 DNL. He explained that the flight track
information on the map is based on the actual operations at the airport.
Council Member Krebsbach clarified her understanding and asked if this is because they
have so many flights in the area that the averaging pulls the flights into account. Mr.
Leqve confirmed and further clarified the annualized averaging of the flights for the
Commission.
Commissioner Petschel indicated that during Ms. Green's meeting with the Commission
she stated that the number of planes leaking out of the corridor had been increasing and
that she would try to address the issue. She stated that the Commission should follow -up
on their progress noting that the training and turnovers that the tower was experiencing
should have settled down some.
Mr. Leqve provided the Commission with an overview of the I &M Core Subtract Map
noting the tracks that are used and incorporated into the view. He explained that the
Federal Government provides funding for various projects and that the FAA has stated
that there is a need for some form of measurement.
Council Member Krebsbach asked if the FAA directs the flight trajectories and the
hinging policies. Mr. Leqve confirmed that the FAA directs them.
Mr. Leqve stated that where they are at now in the process is to try to build and develop
inputs for the Integrated Noise Modules. He stated that they are built on actual raw flight
data and reviewed with the Commission.
Council Member Vitelli asked Mr. Leqve to clarify what it means for someone to be in
the 60/65 DNL. Mr. Leqve explained that in the Integrated Noise Module each aircraft
has a noise value assigned to it. He stated that the FAA developed a per aircraft
requirement where every plane is required to be noise tested in order to determine the
noise impact levels. He stated that this process allows them to develop a profile for each
aircraft style that is based on the geometry of how the aircraft is flying. He noted that the
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
acronym DNL stands for Daytime/Nighttime Levels and reviewed the formula used to
create the event values with the Commission.
Commissioner Povolny stated the traffic going west bows out and asked why it does not
do this over Mendota Heights. Mr. Leqve explained the north side is the 350/360 and
south side is 260/270 and reviewed with the Commission. He noted that both are used
quite heavily.
Chair Beaty stated that what the Commission is trying to understand is why there are no
spikes shown in their area that would reflect the fanning.
Mr. Leqve reviewed the actual flight tracks with the Commission. He explained that the
reason they see fanning to the northwest of airport is because these are extremely
predominant headings that drive the lobes. He stated that they have developed the tracks
along the north runway noting that the percentage of use is not that great. He further
explained that they want the contours and flight tracks to be based on actual radar data,
which dictates the input that develops the flight contours.
Commissioner Petschel referenced the wheels up turn and asked if there is a special
calculation used because of the topography and geometry of the track. Mr. Leqve
confirmed and reviewed the calculation with the Commission.
Chair Beaty referenced the I &M Model and asked if the MAC has considered any other
models to use as examples. Mr. Leqve explained that if they were to try to develop a
different model the program could suffer. He stated that if this were to be presented to
the FAA as a part of the Part 150 it would not be considered. He suggested that the
Commission work at a federal level and with government officials to help initiate a
National/Federal Standardized Process.
Chair Beaty expressed concerns stating that it seems like something is not right with the
maps because they cannot actually see the spikes. Mr. Leqve stated that the model is
accounting for the changes to the track and reviewed the formula with the Commission.
Mr. Leqve suggested that the Commission work with their NOC Representative to
encourage the MAC to update their contours and also encourage a review of the 2007
maps.
Chair Beaty stated that this is the reason why the ARC has asked for a report that would
allow them to track the runway use. Mr. Leqve referenced the Technical Advisory
Reports and the Runway Use Reports noting that all of them are available for review on
their website. He stated that they could put together a packet of the information the
Commission would like to review.
Council Member Krebsbach noted that if they compare 2002 and 2007 it does appear that
Minneapolis /St. Paul and Eagan have the majority of the benefit and reviewed with the
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Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
Commission. She noted that the same strength is in the north parallel with the same
fanning and no change and that she does not see any pullback over Mendota.
Mr. Leqve reviewed the benefits with the Commission noting that it would decrease the
nighttime flights. He stated that the out layers are included on the 2007 maps adding that
in comparison there are a number of differences between the two maps and reviewed with
the Commission.
Commissioner Roszak asked if there is a way to stop the leaking. Mr. Leqve
acknowledged stating that the flight leaks are not at the same magnitude as
Minneapolis /St. Paul or Eagan.
Council Member Vitelli asked if it would be possible to reduce the number of quick left
turns. Mr. Leqve stated that he could discuss these issues with the FAA and suggested
monitoring the monthly reports. He suggested inviting Ms. Green to their meetings for
periodic updates.
Commissioner Petschel noted the referenced decreased to 9.3% and asked if it would be
unrealistic to request a review of how quickly the night crossing could be implemented.
Chair Beaty agreed and suggested utilizing two, well - trained controllers to manage the
process.
Mr. Leqve explained that FAA policy is that only one individual could control both
runways using this pattern. He further explained that the procedure is too complicated to
have more than one individual managing the flights. He indicated that in order to get an
accurate review of the data they would need at least six months of data to assess how
often the pattern is occurring. He stated that once runway operations begin they could
then begin to collect the data need for the analysis. He urged the Commissioners to
contact him any time they hear or know of an issue that falls outside of the standard. He
stated that he would investigate any concerns brought to him.
Commissioner Petschel noted the changes in fleet mix and asked if there were any plans
to retire DC9's. Mr. Leqve stated that there would be fleet reductions in 2007 noting that
there would also be an increased use of the DC9's. He reviewed the Northwest Airlines
fleet reductions with the Commission.
Mr. Leqve referenced the EDO (Estimate Daily Operations) stating that it takes into
account the nuance of operations. He stated that in reviewing the reductions and the
increases it does show a reduction in the daily operations.
Commissioner Petschel referenced the major construction project for an airfreight center
and asked if this project would have an impact on nighttime flights. Mr. Leqve explained
that this would a freight facility and they do not anticipate a large impact on operations.
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
Council Member Krebsbach asked if any of the freight traffic would be shifted to
Rochester. She referenced the abatement in Eagan with the new runway and asked why
Mendota Heights is not receiving abatement. Mr. Leqve stated that he is not familiar with
the Rochester schedule and explained that Mendota Heights is not receiving any
mitigation because all of the homes are located in the 60/64. Commissioner Petschel
further clarified that they are not doing any abatements in the 60/64 area.
Commissioner Roszak referenced the third slide noting the increase from 8.3% to 9.3%
and asked what would trigger an environmental impact study. Mr. Leqve clarified that an
increase of 1.5 DNL decibels would trigger an EIS and reviewed with the Commission.
Commissioner Petschel asked what would happen if it ends up at 10 %. Mr. Leqve
suggested putting their expectations in writing by developing an outline that would
identify what their requirements would be to trigger a review.
Commissioner Petschel agreed noting that this would be a good item to follow -up on in
2007 to see if they have followed what was projected.
Council Member Vitelli urged the Commission to look ahead and asked them what would
be gained by reviewing what has already happened. He asked what would change by
reviewing historical information. Commissioner Petschel agreed that the Commission
should continue to look ahead stating that reviewing the information has to do with
honesty and good faith. She stated that the Commission wants to maintain good faith
with the Community noting that this goes back to a history of trust and mistrust with
respect to agreements made in the Part 150.
Mr. Leqve reviewed the origin and concept of the runway use percentages with the
Commission. He stated that when they took this base to evaluate use they had to ask if
they are representing the capacity use stated. He noted that the runway use, to a slight
degree, is somewhat dictated by aircraft type stating that the change to smaller aircraft
provides more leeway.
Commissioner Petschel suggested that the Commission continue to monitor the trends.
She thanked Mr. Leqve for taking the time to meet with the Commission.
Mr. Leqve thanked the Commission for their time and urged them to contact him with
any questions or concerns.
B. Council Member Sandra Krebsbach — Airport Zoning Ordinance
Council Member Krebsbach provided the Commission with an overview of the Airport
Zoning Ordinance stating that the ordinance has gone to the Metropolitan Airport
Commission for review and consideration. She stated that if the ordinance is passed City
Council would have to pass a vote to change their local ordinance to comply. She stated
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
that the zoning ordinance is about creating runway and safety zones in Minneapolis and
Bloomington.
She reviewed the airspace plates and horizontal zone with the Commission noting that it
does not change over Mendota Heights, only Minneapolis and Bloomington. She
indicated that they have asked to be allowed to develop a corner of the safety zone and
reviewed with the Commission. She stated that everything, in terms of questions asked,
is on record noting that there would be no changes to land units or land zoning.
She indicated that the Acacia and Garron Sites are not included in the safety zones. She
noted and reviewed the property losses in the Bloomington area stating that Minneapolis
has been very vigilant in their tree permitting process and restrictions for certain heights.
She stated that they have also been very active in identifying the grandfathered tree areas.
She reviewed the safety zones with the Commission noting that they cannot congregate a
large number of people in these areas. She stated that Mendota Heights is not impacted
adding that they could have four story buildings inside the area and still be considerably
under the height restrictions.
She stated that a Public Hearing for the Airport Zoning Ordinance is scheduled for next
Wednesday, February 18, 2004 at the Metropolitan Airport Commission headquarters.
She urged the Commissioners to review the proposed ordinance, its' findings and
conclusions. She asked the Commission for feedback stating that she is confident that
Mendota Heights would not be adversely affected by the proposed ordinance.
C. Introduction Packet
Commissioner Petschel provided Chair Beaty with copies and files of information that
could be considered for inclusion to the Introduction Packet. She stated that she was able
to locate the original City Council ARC Scope and Agenda, the resolution incorporating
the ARC and the original bylaws. She explained that the Commission should determine
the content and sequence of content in the packet. She suggested that Staff create the
table of content and maintain the contents of the packet for distribution. She suggested
that they also consider creating an electronic copy for disbursement via email or by
download from the City website.
Chair Beaty asked Commissioner Petschel to pull the information together and organize it
for future discussion. Commissioner Petschel stated that she would review the
documents and organize the information for Commission review at the next ARC
meeting.
Commissioner Stein took the blue notebook covering the period from 1972 to 1992 to
review for documents and information. Commissioner Roszak too the blue notebook
covering the period from 1992 to the present to review for documents and information.
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
D. Third Parallel
City Administrator Danielson stated that they received a copy of the Minneapolis
agreement and provided a brief overview to the Commission. He stated that it appears to
be basically the same and asked the Commission if they were in agreement to return the
document.
The Commission agreed by consensus that the document can be returned.
E. NOC Issues
Commissioner Petschel suggested that the Commission consider various projects that
could involve Council Member Vitelli's assistance. She suggested implementation of
crossing in the middle as a potential project.
Chair Beaty agreed and suggested the fanning over Eagan. He stated that he would like to
work out an agreement with respect to what the ARC wants to see from the NOC
Representative. He stated that this would include an outline of responsibilities and
expectations that would be presented to the City Council as a recommendation of
expectations.
Commissioner Povolny and Commissioner Roszak agreed and suggested including this as
an agenda item.
F. City Council Update
City Administrator Danielson provided the Commission with a brief update of the
following City Council activities:
• Pilot Knob lawsuit - reviewed the progress with the Commission noting that the
EIS Process does not stay the 60 -day rule.
• Stated that the newsletter is coming out next week noting that Council Member
Vitelli has submitted a NOC /Airport Noise article. He encouraged the
Commissioners to consider an article for future issues of the newsletter.
Acknowledge Receipt of Various Reports /Correspondence:
The Commission briefly reviewed the following documents:
• Email and Memorandum from Chad Legve Regarding Noise Public Input Meeting
— January 2004.
• Letter from Metropolitan Airports Commission
• MSP Noise News for December 2003
• Airport Noise Report, January 9, 2004
• Airport Noise Report, January 16, 2004
Commission Meeting February 11, 2004
Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission
• Airport Noise Report, January 23, 2004
• Airport Noise Report Annual Index - Summary
• 2002 Base Case Noise Contours Map — Draft, from Chad Legve
• 2007 Unmitigated Noise Contours Map — Draft, from Chad Legve
• 2007 Mitigated Noise Contours Map — Draft, from Chad Legve
• 2007 Mitigated Noise Contours Compared to 2005 Mitigated Noise Contours
Map — Draft, from Chad Legve
• Notice of Second Public Hearing and Comment Period on Amendments to the
Minneapolis -St. Paul International Airport Zoning Ordinance, from Sandra
Krebsbach.
OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS
Commissioner Roszak suggested meeting and talking with their Minneapolis /St. Paul
counterparts. He also suggested that the Commission focus on pulling together
information and move forward working with the Federal and State Legislatures on issues
that affect Mendota Heights.
City Administrator Danielson clarified documents that should be included in the
Commission meeting packet. He noted that the next packet would include copies of the
minutes, Anoms Reports and Technical Reports.
Commissioner Petschel referenced the Ground Breaking ceremony and asked where
Mendota Heights is on determining the retail. City Administrator Danielson stated that
presently Caribou Coffee, Green Mill and a Specialty Grocery are being considered.
Commissioner Petschel noted the power lines and expressed concerns regarding the
height. She stated that she does not see any differences between the old and new poles.
Agenda Items for the February 2004 Commission Meeting:
• Introduction packet for new Commissioners and Residents.
• Friel File Discussion.
• Issues for NOC
The Commission agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting at 9:40 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.