05-14-1997 ARC MinutesCITY OF MENDOTA HEIGHTS
DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES
MAY 14, 1997
The regular meeting of the Mendota Heights Airport Relations Commission was
held on Wednesday, May 14, 1997 in the City Hall Large Conference Room, 1101
Victoria Curve. The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. The following
members were present: Beaty, Fitzer, Stein, Gross, Des Roches and May.
Commissioner Leuman was excused. Also present were City Administrator Kevin
Batchelder and Senior Secretary Kim Blaeser. Also in attendance was
Councilmember Jill Smith.
INTRODUCTION OF
NEW COMMISSIONER
Chair Beaty welcomed new Airport Relations Commissioner George May.
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that he intends to meet
with new Commissioners Des Roches and May to discuss current topics
presently being discussed by the Commission and provide an orientation.
Chair Beaty introduced Councilmember Smith to the Commission.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Fitzer moved approval of the April 9, 1997 Minutes.
Commissioner Stein seconded the motion.
AYES: 5
NAYS: 0
DISCUSSION OF NOISE ABATEMENT
DEPARTURE PROFILES
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that the MAC has briefed
the MASAC Operations Committee and MASAC about their proposal to
implement the Close -In departure procedure for all departures off the
Minneapolis end of the parallel runways (29L and 29R). He stated that the
MAC staff is recommending that the Distant departure procedure be
continued for all departures over the Eagan/Mendota Heights corridor.
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 1
Administrator Batchelder reviewed Parcel Count information for each
community by Distant and Close In departure procedures. He explained that
this analysis is based an 1994 data on noise and airport operations and
1996 population figures from the Dakota County GIS system. He explained
that this analysis assumes that MSP will be using two departure procedures
and that it will be up to the local airport operator to decide which departure
procedure will be used. He stated that the FAA and Airlines Pilots
Association (ALPA) have taken the position that they will not accept
different procedures off the same ends of the parallel runways.
In response to a question from Commissioner May, Administrator Batchelder
stated that there is no affect on the operations when different departure
procedures are used at different ends of the runway. He explained that the
FAA and ALPA have taken the position that the same departure procedure
will be used off of the parallel runways in each direction. He explained that
according to the model analysis of DNL contours, the Close In departure
procedure will benefit Mendota Heights. He stated that according to the
Parcel Count information, Mendota Heights would have 101 fewer homes in
the LDN 65 noise contour with a change to the Close In departure
procedure. He explained that the Distant departure procedure favors the
Cities of Inver Grove Heights and Eagan.
Councilmember Smith inquired how changes in decibels are measured.
Commissioner Gross arrived at 7:14 p.m.
Administrator Batchelder stated that the shift from 65 decibels to 68
decibels is greater than the shift from 52 decibels to 55 decibels because of
the logarithmic scale.
Batchelder stated that the Close In departure procedure will benefit DNL
contours (in Mendota Heights) 75, 70 and 65. He explained that the DNL
60 contour, homes near Huber Drive and Delaware Avenue, have a slight
benefit from the Distant departure procedure. He stated he is unaware at
which point between the DNL 65 and DNL 60, the benefit switches from the
Close In to the Distant departure, and how many homes this involves.
Chair Beaty stated that he would like a test of the different departure
procedures before a final decision is made. He stated that he inquired with
Mr. Foggia, who stated that the testing procedure would take too long.
Commissioner Fitzer suggested that a comparison be completed between
last June and this coming June. Councilmember Smith stated that the
current scientific information is not in accordance with what people are
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 74, 1997 2
actually experiencing.
Commissioner Fitzer stated that the departure procedure used leaving
Europe is the Close In departure procedure. He stated that population does
not dictate what procedure is used. He stated that he would like to see a
test conducted at MSP. He stated that the results may be better than what
the MAC is currently proposing.
Administrator Batchelder explained the following procedures:
The Close In Procedure: At 800 to 1000 feet above field elevation (AFE)
thrust cutback is initiated. At 3000 feet (afe) the flaps are retracted and
normal climb is resumed. This procedure helps reduce noise close in by
reducing the thrust at the beginning of the climb.
The Distant Procedure: At 800 to 1000 feet (afe), flaps are slowly retracted
and a little while later thrust is reduced, but not as much as with the close -
in procedure. At 3000 feet (afe) normal climb is resumed. This procedure
helps reduce noise to distant communities by gaining more altitude close to
the airport and combining reduced thrust and altitude for noise reduction.
Commissioner Des Roches inquired if fuel consumption is a major factor in
determining which departure procedure is used. Batchelder responded that
he has been told no. He stated that NW Airlines has indicated that the
Distant procedure is used more frequently by their pilots.
In response to a question from Councilmember Smith, Commissioner Fitzer
stated that the aircraft's flap setting dictates the type of procedure used.
He explained that speed of the aircraft is predicated on the gross weight of
the plane along with other issues such as temperature. He stated that the
aircraft can climb to 3,000 feet quicker and faster with the Close In
departure procedure.
Chair Beaty stated that he is concerned that the aircraft will accelerate to
3,000 feet over Mendota Heights neighborhoods. Commissioner Fitzer
explained that the same power setting is used for each departure procedure
and that the Close In procedure means that the aircraft will be accelerating
over Inver Grove Heights and not Mendota Heights.
Batchelder explained that the MAC is of the opinion that the Close In
procedure should be used over Minneapolis because of the amount of
homes impacted by air noise and that the MAC is of the opinion that the
Distance procedure is best used over Mendota Heights and Eagan because
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997
their are not as many homes affected by air noise as in Minneapolis.
Councilmember Smith stated that this will be a short term benefit according
to the computer models because the maximum benefit is three decibels.
Chair Beaty stated that the Commission needs to make a recommendation
on the type of procedure Mendota Heights should pursue. He noted that
the Mayor favors the Close In departure procedure. Administrator
Batchelder stated that the Mayor is of the opinion that -this departure
procedure be in place prior to the Runway 11 R reconstruction.. He noted
that a test of procedures was requested last year, and that it was not
pursued.
Commissioner May suggested that the City consider requesting an
abbreviated test in which this information could be "plugged" into the
computers which would give a more accurate accounting of what is really
happening with the air noise in all of the communities. Councilmember
Smith concurred and stated that there are mobile ANOMS units available.
Commissioner Des Roches inquired if data is available to research what
aircraft used a specific departure procedure. She stated that this
information could be helpful in reaching a more educated recommeod ionOJT
by the MAC. Commissioner Fitzer concurred and stated that an unscientific
comparison may prove to be very helpful. He stated that if the Close In
procedure is implemented over Minneapolis, why not test the procedure
over both Minneapolis and Eagan/Mendota Heights. He suggested that a
three or six month testing period should be considered and that ANOMS
data should be used. Councilmember Smith concurred and stated that there
is a big difference between the amount of households (101 households)
who would benefit with the Close In departure procedure over the Distant
departure procedure (11 households). Smith pointed out that these
numbers include only households and not residents living in apartments
(Lexington Heights Apartments) and schools. She stated there are more
individuals who are impacted by air noise than just households.
Councilmember Smith stated that the City Council needs to consider the
political nature of our stance. She stated that except Minneapolis, Mendota
Heights experiences more air noise than any other community. She stated
that the Distant departure procedure discounts loudest noise in our
community. Administrator Batchelder stated that the underlying assumption
is that MAC operates in reducing noise in the most heavily impacted areas
first then worry about other communities who are further away from the
MSP. He stated that there are 111 homes who could benefit from the Close
In departure procedure with only 11 homes in Eagan that would not benefit.
Councilmember Smith stated that while the Close In departure procedure
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 4
benefits the City of Mendota Heights, it will not benefit other communities
with the Northern Dakota County Airport Relations Commission (NDCARC).
It was noted that the Cities of Eagan and Inver Grove Heights were in favor
of the Close In departure procedure until the Parcel Count data information
was released.
Chair Beaty inquired if the departure procedures could be runway specific.
Batchelder stated that the FAA and ALPA have taken the position that they
will not accept different procedures off the same ends of the parallel
runways. Councilmember Smith stated that runway specific departure
procedures may be complicated due to different air born scenarios.
Commissioner Des Roches suggested that the City consider getting other
communities involved in pursuing a test of departure procedures. She
stated that if everyone had better data, then we all would have bette
information to make a better decision. She stated that factual datae;ore
accurate than computer modeling data. rylay'.10-e-
Administrator Batchelder stated that the NDCARC will meet on May 20 and
that this topic could be discussed at that time.
Chair Beaty moved to recommend that the City Council adopt a resolution
which formally requests a change in the departure procedures for the
Mendota Heights Eagan corridor. He stated that the resolution should
include the following information:
1 That the MAC has established the practice of giving prime
consideration to those areas most heavily impacted by air noise; and
2. That the MAC analysis demonstrates that 101 households and school
properties within Mendota Heights would experience a reduction in
noise levels within the DNL 65 noise contour if the current Distant
departure procedure was switched to a Close In departure procedure;
and
3. That a test period of Close -In departure procedure over the Mendota
Heights/Eagan corridor would provide data to the ANOMS that could
determine the real benefit of a Close -In departure procedure for noise
mitigation purposes.
( I ) AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 5
Commissioner Fitzer seconded the motion.
AYES: 6
NAYS: 0
Commissioner Stein stated that he would like to see the testing process
begin immediately since the summer months are the most difficult time for
Mendota Heights neighborhoods and the fact that NW. Airlines may uphold
Runway 11 R reconstruction in 1998.
Councilmember Smith reminded the Commission that the MASAC is not the
"end of the line". Administrator Batchelder stated that after MASAC reviews
the City's request the P&E Committee and the full MAC board will review
the request. Councilmember Smith stated that the MAC may not look
favorably on our request. She stated that NW Airlines favors the Distant
procedure and that she is sure that other carriers will follow suit with NWA.
She stated that she has serious reservations that this request will make it to
the full MAC. She stated that it is very important that the City be put on
record with our concerns and suggestions as soon as possible. Chair Beaty
suggested that the NDCARC support our request because it will be hard for
the MASAC to not listen to more than one City.
Commissioner May inquired about the legislature. He wondered if it is really
necessary to have the support of other communities when the City should
have support from its own legislators. Councilmember Smith stated that the
City has no direct power to the MAC. She stated that the procedures at
MSP are regulated by the FAA. She stated that the Governor appoints MAC
representatives and that Mendota Heights does not have MAC
representation. She explained that the MASAC was created many years
ago to discuss noise related topics and to take the pressure off of the MAC
to discuss these issues. She stated our State legislators have very little
power over MAC and FAA regulations. She stated that the City of Mendota
Heights does not advise directly to the MAC but to the P&E Committee
which advises the MAC. She stated that the City has a very small "say" at
the MASAC level. Smith stated that the City should continue to put political
pressure on MAC and to keep pursuing our State legislators. She stated
that the City could influence the press and court system. Commissioner
May stated that you do get attention through the court system. He inquired
if there is a more direct way to get our concerns through to the MAC.
Commissioner Fitzer stated that using the court system has been discussed
in the past and that cost is a real concern. He stated that another concern
is that one half of the City (north of Highway 110) does not believe that
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 6
there is a real air noise concern or that tax dollars should be used to pursue
litigation.
Councilmember Smith stated that the City should pursue noise mitigation
through the established channels and that the City should continue to be on
record stating our air noise concerns. Chair Beaty stated that he believes
the City should continue to pursue the political end of air noise beginning
with the Governor's office. He stated that he believes the MAC should be
elected representatives and not appointed representatives. He stated the
City of Mendota Heights needs MAC representation. Commissioner May
stated that the City should use Representative Commers and Senator
Wiener. Councilmember Smith stated that Senator Wiener has supported
the City in the past, in particular, supporting the Third Parallel Runway -
Third Party contract. Chair Beaty reminded the Commission that
Representative Commers and Senator Wiener also represent Eagan.
Commissioner Gross stated that even if someone from Eagan is on the MAC
board, it would be better than the current Apple Valley representative.
Chair Beaty stated that the City has one vote on MASAC. Councilmember
Smith stated that Minneapolis has 4 votes, St. Paul has 3 votes and
Burnsville has 1 vote. It was noted that St. Louis Park has 1 vote.
Commissioner Des Roches inquired if adding additional representative to
MASAC requires new legislation. Chair Beaty stated no, that MASAC has
their own by-laws. He stated that the MASAC by-laws requires equal
representation between communities and commercial.
Administrator Batchelder stated that on April 22, the MASAC Executive
Committee discussed adding Sunfish Lake as a voting member on the
MASAC. It was also discussed that there are several issues that are
negatively plaguing the MASAC such as sending agenda information out too
late to members and the actual structure of MASAC. Batchelder stated that
the NDCARC will be discussing these issues at their next meeting in May.
He stated that other communities are frustrated with the MASAC. The
Commission concurred that it does not make sense to have St. Louis Park
as a voting member on the MASAC when MSP operations do not directly
impact that City.
Batchelder stated that the MASAC is considering changing its quorum
requirements from seven to four. Councilmember Smith stated she is
opposed to this change. She stated how can there be a quorum with less
than 50 percent of its membership present. Commissioner Des Roches
stated that attendance may be hampered because information is being sent
out too late to its members. Councilmember Smith stated there are
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 7
currently 32 members on the MASAC. Commissioner Gross suggested that
the quorum be changed to 17 and that it not matter who is in attendance.
Maybe there will be more of an incentive to attend the meetings if the
quorum expectation is higher. Councilmember Smith concurred.
Councilmember Smith announced that SMAAC will be meeting on Thursday,
May 22 at 7:30 p.m. Chair Beaty inquired about the SMAAC newsletter
and stated that the City has not received one in quite a while.
Chair Beaty thanked Councilmember Smith for attending the meeting.
Councilmember Smith was excused at 8:00 p.m.
DISCUSS ARTICLE TOPICS
FOR MAY HEIGHTS HIGHLITES
The Commission discussed topics to include in the May Heights Highlites.
The Commission was of the consensus to include articles on cancellation of
runway reconstruction, non -simultaneous crossing pattern, third parallel
runway contract, new commissioners and action plan updates. The
Commission felt it important to inform the community about their work an
the non -simultaneous crossing procedures and that fact that it was quite an
accomplishment after working on it for three years. The Commission felt it
necessary to inform the community that the action plan will be updated and
that the public is invited to attend an August City Council meeting for
further information on the action plan.
REVIEW CITY COUNCIL TARGET
ISSUES ON AIRPORT NOISE
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that the City Council
continue to consider air noise as a high priority issue. Chair Beaty
suggested that this information be included in the Heights Highlites
newsletter. Batchelder informed the Commission that the Council is of the
opinion that the Commission has made significant progress throughout the
past three years. He stated the Council is anxious to receive an update on
the Action Plan.
Chair Beaty directed staff to include the Action Plan on the June agenda.
Chair Beaty suggested that an article on the north/south runway
reconstruction project should be included in the newsletter. He stated that
figures depicting runway use percentages should be included.
The Commission continued discussion regarding appointments to the MAC.
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997
Commissioner Gross suggested that the City politically pursue two
appointments on the MAC board. Chair Beaty stated that this would require
a significant change to the MAC that would include the passing of a Bill in
the House and Senate. He stated that Districts would need to be formed.
He stated that the City should consider studying who should co-author such
a Bill. Chair Beaty suggested that this topic be discussed by the NDCARC.
MISCELLANEOUS
Commissioner Gross moved to recommend that the Airport Relations
Commission meetings adjourn promptly at 9:00 p.m.
Commissioner Fitzer seconded the motion.
Chair Beaty stated that he would like to work towards adjourning their
meetings by 9:00 p.m. and that he disagrees in making a 9:00 p.m.
adjournment time mandatory. Commissioner May stated he agrees with the
motion in that a 9:00 p.m. adjournment time may give the Commission an
opportunity to discuss items on the agenda in a more efficient manner.
VOTE ON THE MOTION:
AYES: 3, FITZER, GROSS, MAY
NAYS: 3, BEATY, STEIN, DES ROCHES
MOTION FAILS
UPDATE ON ROGER'S
LAKE BOUNDARY BLOCK REQUEST
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that he had revised his
request to add three more homes to the Part 150 Sound Insulation Program.
He explained that he had spoken with Mr. Steve Vecchi regarding the City's
recent letter requesting that four homes on Swan Drive be added to the Part
150 program. Mr. Vecchi had informed the City.that the three homes west
of Swan Drive should also be included. Batchelder stated that he has not
yet heard from Mr. Vecchi's office confirming the additional homes in the
sound insulation program.
( ) AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 9
UPDATE ON FAA TOWER DEDICATION
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that Mayor Mertensotto
and himself had attended the recent tower dedication ceremony. The
Commission directed staff to pursue dates for the Commission to tour the
new tower.
ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF VARIOUS
REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the MASAC Agenda for April 22,
1997 and March 25, 1997 Minutes.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the MASAC's Technical Advisor's
Report for March 1997. Chair Beaty noted a low percentage of Mendota
Heights complaints in the month of March. He noted that Runway 4-22 has
been used more, especially during night time hours.
Commissioner Des Roches stated that she would like to discuss
interpretation of these reports during her orientation meeting.
Commissioner Gross noted that 53.8 percent of aircraft operations were
Stage III and 46.2 percent of aircraft operations were Stage II. He stated
that NW is using more Stage III aircraft but that other carriers must still be
using Stage II aircraft at MSP.
The Commission acknowledge receipt of MASAC's Monthly Complaint
Summary for March 1997.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the MASAC's Corridor Gate
Penetration Analysis for March 1997.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the MASAC Operations
Committee Minutes for April 7, 1997.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the NDCARC Minutes for April
15, 1997.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the Airport Noise Report.
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the Northwest Airlines Stage III
Compliance Report - April 22, 1997.
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 10
The Commission acknowledged receipt of the Eagan ARC Agenda for May
15, 1997.
MISCELLANEOUS
Commissioner Stein inquired if the Commission is interested in having an
instructor from Inver Hills Community College attend an upcoming Airport
Relations Commission meeting to discuss private/commercial aviation
forecasts and the possibility of the airport relocating. Chair Beaty suggested
that the speaker attend the June Airport Relations Commission meeting.
Administrator Batchelder informed the Commission that the annual NOISE
conference is being hosted by the City of Eagan in July.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, the Airport Relations Commission
adjourned its meeting at 9:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Kimberlee K. Blaeser
Senior Secretary
AIRPORT RELATIONS COMMISSION MINUTES - MAY 14, 1997 11